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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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| Post subject: Player Performance 2013 v 2014: The Fall (Super Coach) |  |
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Thought I'd get some stats to see if they back up what we're seeing at the matches. Heard Bucks talking about the number of new players that the club had nutured, so thought I'd look at what's happened to our more experienced listed players. What I found wasn't really surprising, but the sheer number of players that have slipped this year is. As per the usual SC method, only players with 5 or more games are listed.
Player 2013 2014
Pendlebury 125.52 125.11 Mr Consistency
Beams 107.25 114.53 +7
Swan 116.83 089.81 -17
Sidebottom 103.83 112.65 +9
Ball 095.46 074.73 -19
Cloke 094.00 072.55 -21
Lumumba 087.37 078.85 -8
[b]Seedsman 078.29 074.00 -4
Thomas 077.42 068.00 -9
Blair 076.91 074.84 -2
Williams 075.19 070.69 -5
Grundy 074.00 062.38 -12
Elliott 070.95 083.24 +13
Toovey 070.40 052.59 -17
Dwyer 067.38 064.00 -3
Maxwell 067.00 069.50 +2
Goldsack 066.66 065.61 -1
[b]Keeffe 064.12 062.38 -2
Witts 064.00 071.89 +8
Macaffer 059.86 056.10 -3
Kennedy 040.92 048.62 +8
New
Langdon 072.12 NA +72
Young 071.94 NA +72
White 061.69 NA +62
Frost 000.00 53.80 +54
Injured /Played under 5
Brown
Reid
Sinclair
Scharenberg
Freeman
Injured last year:
Fasolo
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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Cuthbert Collingwood 
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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That's a lot less than I expected - a drop of 56 points from 21 players is only 2.66 points per player
_________________
McRae for Governor-General! |
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Neil Appleby
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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I suppose so, but another "perceptive fellow" view may be that only 6 players improved their performances over the 12 months. Given that Bucks and the club generally were gutted at our 2013 performance, at least in the Elimination Final, I don't think these figures would be comforting.
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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Yer. Not as bad as I thought.
I guess many viewed this year as a re-build (refurbishment) year. I guess we can say it was a bit of a consolidation with the those stats.
However, those scores also back up my comment that very few players have improved under Buckley.
Beams and Sidebottom have improved under him. But their foundation was already laid. I think they would have improved under any coach. Elliott has improved. Witts too. But thats it.
But there has been no surprise improvement.
For example. Langdon came in as a late recruit and played well above expectations. Yes , he did that under Buckley. But as a 1st year player is that more the players ability, or the coaches system. I'd have in more weighted towards the player.
No mid tear players have really surprised me in their step up. Eg. Caff, Goldsack, Harry, Blair, Young, White, and maybe throw Dwyer and Sinclair in that group.
None of those established player have "stepped up". Buckely identified our previous "role players" needed to step up to be "movers and shakers".
So the question remains in my head. Is it a coaching problem, or a lack of Player ability problem? Maybe a bit of both?
Considering, very few players this year can say they had a good year, and I'm left with the observation that very few players have made significant improvement under this coaching regime, I have serious concerns it's ability to get the best out of it's available talent. |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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Next year should be the determining factor. Many of the last 2-3 years of debutants are now reaching 20-50 games. We should start to see the odd game where by they show they can star in a game and be a significant factor or show consistancy of performance.
Like:
Faz
Grundy
BK
Adams
Witts
Thomas
Williams
Sinclair
Broomy
BTW. My above post should have credited Keeffe as an improved player under Buckley. |
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BBHS 
bbhs
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: Bellarine
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| Stats can be inflated by a team that over uses the ball and switches play a lot. |
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5150 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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| BBHS wrote: | | Stats can be inflated by a team that over uses the ball and switches play a lot. |
Yes, supercoach counts a kick to a 3 on 1 contest as effective...
I'm quite surprised that the numbers for this are not that bad from last year. It may be more that other teams have improved while we stayed roughly the same or slightly less. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| melliot wrote: | Yer. Not as bad as I thought.
I guess many viewed this year as a re-build (refurbishment) year. I guess we can say it was a bit of a consolidation with the those stats.
However, those scores also back up my comment that very few players have improved under Buckley.
Beams and Sidebottom have improved under him. But their foundation was already laid. I think they would have improved under any coach. Elliott has improved. Witts too. But thats it.
But there has been no surprise improvement.
For example. Langdon came in as a late recruit and played well above expectations. Yes , he did that under Buckley. But as a 1st year player is that more the players ability, or the coaches system. I'd have in more weighted towards the player.
No mid tear players have really surprised me in their step up. Eg. Caff, Goldsack, Harry, Blair, Young, White, and maybe throw Dwyer and Sinclair in that group.
None of those established player have "stepped up". Buckely identified our previous "role players" needed to step up to be "movers and shakers".
So the question remains in my head. Is it a coaching problem, or a lack of Player ability problem? Maybe a bit of both?
Considering, very few players this year can say they had a good year, and I'm left with the observation that very few players have made significant improvement under this coaching regime, I have serious concerns it's ability to get the best out of it's available talent. |
Dwyer and Sinclair have both had injury issues this year so I think we can cut them a little slack. Of the others, maybe expecting established role players to step up is a little unrealistic. Would be nice if they could and help the development of the kids, fill the void of departed regulars, but in reality most of them are role players for a reason. They are generally limited by some aspect or another which is why they've become role players. I'd be more disappointed if we hadn't seen improvement in the kids, Kennedy, Elliott, Witts, Broomhead, Adams, Langdon, Frost, Keeffe among others have all progressed this year. Even Gaulty has had his best year. These are the guys that will force the role players out of the team and support our elite players taking the team back up the ladder. Admittedly, a few haven't progressed this season like Williams and Thomas. Hopefully 2015. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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As we all knew, there has been a drop off from Swan and Ball, and Cloke has had what can only be described as an average-to-poor season for the amount of $ he gets.
Lumumba also well down, but was a bit surprised to see the drop off from Thomas; that's JT and not Daisy I assume?
Toov's has had a dog of a season
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Neil Appleby
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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Some other depressing stats:
Collingwood Ratings:
Contested possessions
2014: 13
2013: 11
2012: 3
2011: 1
2010: 1
Clearances:
2014: 16
2013: 15
2012: 6
2011: 2
2010: 6
Inside 50s
2014: 12
2013: 3
2012: 10
2011: 1
2010: 1
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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| Post subject: | |
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| jackcass wrote: | | melliot wrote: | Yer. Not as bad as I thought.
I guess many viewed this year as a re-build (refurbishment) year. I guess we can say it was a bit of a consolidation with the those stats.
However, those scores also back up my comment that very few players have improved under Buckley.
Beams and Sidebottom have improved under him. But their foundation was already laid. I think they would have improved under any coach. Elliott has improved. Witts too. But thats it.
But there has been no surprise improvement.
For example. Langdon came in as a late recruit and played well above expectations. Yes , he did that under Buckley. But as a 1st year player is that more the players ability, or the coaches system. I'd have in more weighted towards the player.
No mid tear players have really surprised me in their step up. Eg. Caff, Goldsack, Harry, Blair, Young, White, and maybe throw Dwyer and Sinclair in that group.
None of those established player have "stepped up". Buckely identified our previous "role players" needed to step up to be "movers and shakers".
So the question remains in my head. Is it a coaching problem, or a lack of Player ability problem? Maybe a bit of both?
Considering, very few players this year can say they had a good year, and I'm left with the observation that very few players have made significant improvement under this coaching regime, I have serious concerns it's ability to get the best out of it's available talent. |
Dwyer and Sinclair have both had injury issues this year so I think we can cut them a little slack. Of the others, maybe expecting established role players to step up is a little unrealistic. Would be nice if they could and help the development of the kids, fill the void of departed regulars, but in reality most of them are role players for a reason. They are generally limited by some aspect or another which is why they've become role players. I'd be more disappointed if we hadn't seen improvement in the kids, Kennedy, Elliott, Witts, Broomhead, Adams, Langdon, Frost, Keeffe among others have all progressed this year. Even Gaulty has had his best year. These are the guys that will force the role players out of the team and support our elite players taking the team back up the ladder. Admittedly, a few haven't progressed this season like Williams and Thomas. Hopefully 2015. |
This is part of my point. None of our mid tear established players has taken the opportunity to stand up to the next level. We are now waiting on our kids to fill this void. Ultimately, this is a big part of the reason why we are where we are this year.
Generally, when there is a void, some player that hasn't had the opportunity steps in and plays beyond expectation, because of the opportunity of more responsibility and greater role. This hasn't really happened IMO.
For example. I would have expected say Blair to go and play as a true inside mid and become a 30 possie player, not a 12 possie player playing defensive forward. Why hasn't this happened? It's not as if his forward work is irreplaceable! It's not as if either Adams or Ball has set the world on fire!
I'm not convinced it's just player ability or just coaching. It's possibly bit of both. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | Some other depressing stats:
Collingwood Ratings:
Contested possessions
2014: 13
2013: 11
2012: 3
2011: 1
2010: 1
Clearances:
2014: 16
2013: 15
2012: 6
2011: 2
2010: 6
Inside 50s
2014: 12
2013: 3
2012: 10
2011: 1
2010: 1 |
The stats for clearances and contested possessions aren't surprising but the inside 50 ones are interesting to me.
For me these show our balance between defensive ability and forward transition has never been great under Buckley.
Last season we were effective at getting the ball inside our f50 (though poor at converting that into goals) but it came at a cost as we were opened up like a sieve in our defence all to often.
This season like his first in 2012 was a better defensive performance but our forward transition remains very poor with our skills and a game plan either still a work in progress or flawed the major reason behind it.
I distinctly recall AI stating in 2012 that we were neither excelling at defending or attacking and I think he was right on the money.
Right now we do neither well.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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Very clearly highlights this years positives and negatives...
Pendles remains A+ grade
Sidey and Beams have stepped up into A grade territory
Elliot has been the best story of the year...
Newbies (Kennedy, Witts, Langson, Frost, Keefe) have been good
The bad news is also very glaring though...
Our oldies - Swan and Ball have had shockers - will Ball hang around?
Cloke and Toovey should be at their peak and were very poor
Lumumba and Dwyer not producing their best. Again should be at their peak!
Young guys Grundy and JT were poor - still young of course and Grundy will come back - I am not so sure about JT?
Goldy, Blair and Caff just OK - will remain role players until the young guys step up and force them out or maybe they can find something extra?
_________________
Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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Cuthbert Collingwood
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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^ Heritier's supercoach scores for this year are the second best average of his career. Last year was top with 88 points and third was 2010 with 75 points.
_________________
McRae for Governor-General! |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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True H has has secured more points in the last 2 years- but he is playing a less defensive role so I would expect that to the case.
He has done well but we need him to take the next step and be a regular high possession contributor - I am hoping when the backs settle a little more next year H can focus on his attacking game where he is very dangerous.
Would be great to see him streaming into the forward line and kicking some goals and causing the opposition backs a headache.
_________________
Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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