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Stinger
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: Canberra
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| Post subject: The rucks |  |
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For many years Collingwood has relied heavily on a one ruckman strategy + the tall forward that could 'pinch hit' in the ruck. Only when we recruited Jolly from the Swans and Leory from Nth did this reap just reward with a premiership.
Now change is a comin' (well it's almost here). I don't think it's a case of one ruckman laying claim to be #1, with the other playing second fiddle or competing for the same spot. It's going to be both Grundy and Witts combining into a force that will set us up for greatness over next 10 years.
What got me excited on the weekend was the fourth quarter turnaround by our rucking amigos who up until 3/4time were both clearly beaten individually by Mumford
But the turnaround wasn't just Witts or Grundy taking on big Mummy one-on-one; NO, it was the double team effort by these two that I believe turned the game. Witts rucked the whole last quarter with Grundy coming in over the top as the third man up at nearly every contest. Sure Mumford still won his share of the hitouts but geez we made it hard for him. Our clearances from stoppages swung the game back in our favour.
I'm as critical as the next about our coaches not having a plan B but this ruck tactic was clearly implemented in the 4th and executed to perfection by both Grundy and Witts to nullify a clear strength of GWS. I'm really excited for what the future holds if this is what they are both capable of.
Now we just need to come up with a game winning tactic of "keepings off" against the Hawks right from the first bounce and we are in with a show. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| Post subject: Re: The rucks | |
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| Stinger wrote: | For many years Collingwood has relied heavily on a one ruckman strategy + the tall forward that could 'pinch hit' in the ruck. Only when we recruited Jolly from the Swans and Leory from Nth did this reap just reward with a premiership.
Now change is a comin' (well it's almost here). I don't think it's a case of one ruckman laying claim to be #1, with the other playing second fiddle or competing for the same spot. It's going to be both Grundy and Witts combining into a force that will set us up for greatness over next 10 years.
What got me excited on the weekend was the fourth quarter turnaround by our rucking amigos who up until 3/4time were both clearly beaten individually by Mumford
But the turnaround wasn't just Witts or Grundy taking on big Mummy one-on-one; NO, it was the double team effort by these two that I believe turned the game. Witts rucked the whole last quarter with Grundy coming in over the top as the third man up at nearly every contest. Sure Mumford still won his share of the hitouts but geez we made it hard for him. Our clearances from stoppages swung the game back in our favour.
I'm as critical as the next about our coaches not having a plan B but this ruck tactic was clearly implemented in the 4th and executed to perfection by both Grundy and Witts to nullify a clear strength of GWS. I'm really excited for what the future holds if this is what they are both capable of.
Now we just need to come up with a game winning tactic of "keepings off" against the Hawks right from the first bounce and we are in with a show. |
Spot on, great call.
I said it to my son at the time.
The upside is that both of them will grow into a dangerous forward role as well however how they played and ran that last quarter out - with bugger all rotations was exciting to watch.
Great post
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3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Similar to Manson and Monkhurst playing together.
Grundy is a better kick than Jimmy and Witts can pick up the ball and hand it off at speed.
Both are young and have room for improvement and experience.
Add Peter Moores to pinch-hitter list and our rucks are looking good.
Now what we need is some "good in and under players" to lift our clearances and we will be able to play "keepings off". |
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Robbie
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Location: Canberra
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It also provided us with some extra size at the stoppages and we have certainly needed that. As far as the in and under players, Freeman among others could do it if we are fair dinkum about fixing the Fitness (or lack of it) Department.
Confidence improves remarkably if your fit and well prepared although, the opposite is true when your team mates are dropping around you and some are playing two games in a day. Mighty effort from Tony Armstrong and I am sure every Magpie is very proud of you and your efforts.
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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I was watching the 3rd QTR and I was saying while Mumford is 1 v 1 vs our Young Rucks we will have no hope of Winning the Game.
But when he was Double Teamed him and stop his Influence in the Game and that helped us steal the Game.
Both Grundy and Witts can hold down the Number 1 Ruck Spot but not for a few more years
Pies did this early in the Season and it worked then too
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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I would rather see Freeman start up forward and have Adams/ JT and maybe Marley on ball doing some of the grunt work next year.
It was good to see our rucks double teaming Mummy... he was a huge asset to them and it was probably the move that helped turn the game in our favour in that last qtr. Grundy's second efforts are superb for a guy his size and he does make the opposition players a little nervous when he is charging in for a tackle etc.
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | Quote: |
Thought it was most interesting seeing both Grundy & Witts contesting ball ups & throw ins against Mumford - Liked that!! |
They where doing that at start of the Season and we won games doing that.
Agree taking Mumford out the last qtr was a big reason why we stole the game late |
You're probably right Dave but I can't remember seeing two legitimate ruckmen from the same team attacking the stoppages like that. If we continue that ploy & have any success from it they may well change the rules! |
Cox and Nic-Nat.
But before that, just go back to the pre-Barrasi era, where you the ruck-rover was a ruckman. I doubt they did a lot of third-man-up in those days, but you certainly had two genuine ruckmen playing on the ball. In more recent years, most good sides (but almost never Collingwood, for some reason) have got into the habit of having a third-man-up player at a great many contests around the ground. Typically, this isn't a true ruckman, it's a tall midfielder (a Pendlebury/Judd type) or a tall utility (players in the Goodes/Goldsack/Maxwell/Goddard mould). It's uncommon for talls to play in the midfield but by no means unheard of. Recent examples include Pavlich for Freo, Goodes for Sydney, Richardson for Richmond, and Roughhead for the Hawks.
I think this is a very promising tactic for us. First, we have two genuine ruckmen and neither one is much of a forward (though that may change over time as they mature). Rather than play just one, making do with a pinch-hitter when he rests, or playing both from the bench, leaving us effectively a midfield rotation short, why not play them both on the ball?
Both are capable ruck-and-maul players, particularly Grundy. Both are big, strong lads who lay a serious tackle. This last brings me to another advantage of this tactic: our midfield brigade are nearly all midgets, or young and skinny, or both. Adding a big strong body like Grundy's to the mix helps make up for that. So, for us, it's a more attractive proposition than it might be for a club with big, powerful mids like (say) Hawthorn.
In the event, we were driven to this as a desperate expedient: with no-one on the bench v Brisbane, the "resting" ruckman had to play as a mid because White was at full forward and the one and only bench spot was reserved for the midfield smalls. Essentially, Witts rucked the whole last quarter and Grundy filled in for Swanny and 'Caff.
And it worked a treat!
I vote we do it again against Hawthorn. Let's see if their famous hard-bodied unsociable midfield looks so tough when it's up against a couple of genuine big men. I certainly know that I'd rather wrestle with and be tackled by a Thomas or a Blair or a Kennedy than by a Witts or a Grundy!
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Good thread.
Mumford is a monster of a man, there's not many mature rucks in the league who can go 1 0n 1 with him body wise. Both Witts and Grundy will develop into No.1 Rucks so finding different ways to combine them playing in the same side is great.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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If its to work both or one must learn how to play like a key forward otherwise your playing two players for 1.2 positions.
They must take big marks to make defenders honest. Otherwise they're like a trampoline with the ball bouncing out of our F50.
The 2nd ruck died when the sub got bought in. BTW I hate the sub rule
I'm happy for us to do it while we are trying to develop them. But longer term key forward roles will be critical. |
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Stinger
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: Canberra
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| Saw a bit of Goldstein on the weekend. If Grundy can feed our mids the way he was putting it down the throats of Zeibell et al then we'll be doing ok. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Like Thompson and Jerker Jenkins. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| melliot wrote: | If its to work both or one must learn how to play like a key forward otherwise your playing two players for 1.2 positions.
They must take big marks to make defenders honest. Otherwise they're like a trampoline with the ball bouncing out of our F50.
The 2nd ruck died when the sub got bought in. BTW I hate the sub rule
I'm happy for us to do it while we are trying to develop them. But longer term key forward roles will be critical. |
There are Rumors going around that there be no Sub Rule Next Year
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