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Realism not Pessimism

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slangman

Joined: 11 Aug 2003

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:33 pm
Post subject:

So, it's because we have quite a few young players in our team that our senior/premiership players can't kick, chase or show effort for 4 quarters!!!!! 😕 _________________ - Side By Side -

ThePieMind

Joined: 11 Apr 2009

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:43 pm

Post subject:

jackcass wrote:

collie dog wrote:

Keep using the youth excuse guys. It sounds great. The problem is most of them are simply no good! Funny how Geelong and Hawthorn keep finding kids and turning them into future superstars year after year. It's even funnier that they have been able to do this without bottoming out and having high draft picks. That has to say something for their recruiting nous.

One more thing, when Collingwood got rid of Alan Richardson we lost perhaps our most important person at the club. He was a superb development coach for us - as Port and now St Kilda are finding out. Just watch St Kilda bounce back with him at the helm for a few years.

Yeah, right. Geelong and Hawthorn never bottom out and get low draft picks.

Position at end of H&S since 2000...

Geelong - 15th, 12th, 9th, 12th, 4th, 6th, 10th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 2nd.
Hawthorn - 8th, 6th, 10th, 9th, 15th, 14th, 11th, 5th, 2nd, 9th, 7th, 3rd, 1st, 1st.
Collingwood - 5th, 9th, 4th, 2nd, 13th, 15th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 4th, 6th.

Bolded the years teams didn't make the 8.

Yeah right...

Wow - Hawks having twice the number of early picks over the period says alot, and Geel almost the same.

jackcass Cancer

Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:05 pm

Post subject:

ThePieMind wrote:

jackcass wrote:

collie dog wrote:

Wow - Hawks having twice the number of early picks over the period says alot, and Geel almost the same.

Yep, and align that with their player groups and when they were drafted...

innocent_criminal

Joined: 06 Oct 2004

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:27 pm
Post subject:

Another issue is the $$ factor when trying to keep players after our 2010 flag... players rightly so want the best deal and player managers play on the fact we are financially in a great position....as such it seems that we have had 1 or 2 big name contracts that have been (obvious) distractions during the premiership season - affecting the form of the player in Cloke's case when we were possible still in contention for top 4.... ok, with a couple of huge exceptions in Buddy & Gaz, the other lists compared have been much more humble in pay claims / stable / more low key? _________________ Assistant Coach # 23,738

Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:41 pm

Post subject: Re: Realism not Pessimism

42 wrote:

you can't look at a kid and say why don't you play like Swannie: Swannie didnt play like Swannie for about 7 or 8 years.

Nailed it, Mate. Spot on.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives!

Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:43 pm

Post subject:

jackcass wrote:

^ Quality posting there, Jackass. Expect an early recall to Nick's Posting XXII. Smile

_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives!

Nathan

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Location: Magnificent Melbourne

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:50 pm

Post subject:

jackcass wrote:

The other interesting thing about that chart is when they have bottom out they did so for a couple of years at a time. They didn't bounce in and out of the eight but cut hard, in their lean just accepted they were rebuilding and went for the best possible draft picks without trying to dress it up as a competative year. Thats' probably something we havent really done yet.
_________________
"If everybody agrees, then somebody isn't thinking."

Gen George S Patton.
US 3rd Army.

swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?

Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:00 pm

Post subject:

jackcass wrote:

Collingwood finished 15th in 2000 not 5th.

Geelong finished 5th.

We finished 8th at the end of H&A season in 2008.

Not sure of your reasoning in choosing to start with the year 2000 as only a select few players from that draft year would still be playing.

Geelong haven't finished bottom 4 in any of those seasons so they never really "bottomed out" to the extent we and the hawks have.

Pretty sure they never received a priority pick but did benefit from the father son rule.

Points of note:
The hawks were able to snare pick No.1 in the 2001 draft from Fremantle that was ultimately used on there future captain Luke Hodge.
Geelong surprisingly sliding out to 10th in 2006 proved to be fortunate as they snared there future captain in Selwood with pick number 7.
Collingwood were able to snare an additional top 10 selection in the 2006 draft after trading Tarrant to Fremantle. That player would go on to be a premiership player in 2010.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD!

HAL

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.

Joined: 17 Mar 2003

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:04 pm
Post subject:

Pretty much, eh?

Brenny

Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:14 pm

Post subject: Re: Realism not Pessimism

42 wrote:

Everyone is doing the usual Colllingwood thing in a lean year and saying that everything is broken and everyone has to go.

But realistically we are about where we should be and in a good position, assuming you don't believe that Collingwood is always going to win the flag everyyear if only it wasn't for <<insert complaint /hysterical comment here>>

The list is being heavily rebuilt, game plan being implemented and we are getting games into a lot of kids in key positions while some ageing warriors are not what they used to be and are being steadily retired.

You can't expect to do that and still get perfect results each week, in fact you wont even get consistant results from week to week. And of course there will be some who perform and some who don't ultimately cut it, but thats the point of this period of time, finding out who is premiership winning material.

from a grand final in the year before buckley took over we have played finals twice and will more than likely just miss out this year. we should be in the bottom of the cycle. if in 2\3 year time we are not in serious flag contention, with a steady upward trend over that time, then sure its time to start again but lets be realistic.

you can't look at a kid and say why dont u play like swannie. swannie didnt play like swannie for about 7 or 8 years. lets keep it real guys.

Completely agree. I've wanted to post something like that for the past 27 or so hours, but thought it would fall upon deaf ears.

Well said 42!

Skids

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.

Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:15 pm

Post subject:

Tannin wrote:

jackcass wrote:

. and isn't that something to aspire to

^ Quality posting there, Jackass. Expect an early recall to Nick's Posting XXII. Smile

_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count.

jackcass Cancer

Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:32 pm
Post subject:

Bloody tablet lag! Last edited by jackcass on Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

jackcass Cancer

Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:32 pm
Post subject:

x2 Last edited by jackcass on Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

jackcass Cancer

Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:36 pm

Post subject:

swoop42 wrote:

jackcass wrote:

My bad, swapped 2000 results. 2000 was just an arbitrary start point because there are still players from that draft playing. Just wanted to demonstrate that Cats and Hawks have dipped out of the 8 and snared early picks.

HAL

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.

Joined: 17 Mar 2003

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:37 pm

Post subject:

jackcass wrote:

[quote="swoop42"][quote="jackcass"]Yeah, right. Geelong and Hawthorn never bottom out and get low draft picks.

Position at end of H&S since 2000...

Geelong - [b]15th, 12th, 9th, 12th[/b], 4th, 6th, [b]10th[/b], 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 2nd.
Hawthorn - 8th, 6th, [b]10th, 9th, 15th, 14th, 11th,[/b] 5th, 2nd, [b]9th,[/b] 7th, 3rd, 1st, 1st.
Collingwood - 5th, [b]9th[/b], 4th, 2nd, [b]13th, 15th[/b], 5th, 6th, 6th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 4th, 6th.

Bolded the years teams didn't make the 8.

Yeah right...[/quote]

Collingwood finished 15th in 2000 not 5th.

Geelong finished 5th.

We finished 8th at the end of H&A season in 2008.

Not sure of your reasoning in choosing to start with the year 2000 as only a select few players from that draft year would still be playing.

Geelong haven't finished bottom 4 in any of those seasons so they never really "bottomed out" to the extent we and the hawks have.

Pretty sure they never received a priority pick but did benefit from the father son rule.

Points of note:
The hawks were able to snare pick No.1 in the 2001 draft from Fremantle that was ultimately used on there future captain Luke Hodge.
Geelong surprisingly sliding out to 10th in 2006 proved to be fortunate as they snared there future captain in Selwood with pick number 7.
Collingwood were able to snare an additional top 10 selection in the 2006 draft after trading Tarrant to Fremantle. That player would go on to be a premiership player in 2010.[/quote]

My bad, swapped 2000 results. 2000 was an arbitrary point in time, several players from that draft still playing, Riewoldt, Burgoyne, Petrie, Ted Richards among them so it's a time that still shapes squads.

My post was meant as a counter to the suggestion that both Cats and Hawks are perfectly run clubs.

Pretty much, eh?

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