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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Woods by 16 points, we absolutely must win, no ifs or butts. !!
So it is written, so it shall be done. !
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | Beast wrote: | The winds are changing, slowly but surely our supporter base is starting to express bewilderment at our direction and the bloke thats taking us there.
The selection process has been getting more woeful by the week as has the use of a sub and the choice of players subbed off. Not only does Kenno not get a full game despite running out games in VFL and being are only viable crumbing option he gets dropped after performing on par with expectations for a sub.
Same goes for constant omission of JT who despite not taking the next step this year produces the numbers in his quiet games identical if not better than Blair does in his rare good games. And even if we've given up on winning the clearances, which is hard to believe, we still need JT in there for rotations especially in the absence of Ball.
The Club seems to be too afraid of the media backlash to come out and state we're going full rebuild and hence why the payers that clearly won't feature in our next tilt at the flag are still getting a game.
I'm not against seeing what Armstrong has to offer before the end of the year but his form has been reasonable in only the last couple of games, at the same time we've had Martin knocking on the door for the whole year and only getting a call up last week. Dwyer gets sent to VFL to find some form and gets recalled after an average performance while Kenno rips it up in the magoos just about every time and screams for a good run at the senior level but is in and out of the side like a yo-yo.
The whole side also looks completely devoid of confidence, comradery and inspiration, we were playing for our season last week and were in the game at 1/4 time only due to the Crows shocking accuracy...
And I wonder if Ed will address the disarray our Club is in anytime soon instead of diverting the attention by huffing and puffing about the issues we couldn't give a flying one about... Our Ed is in a tough spot right now but its all of his own doing, extending Bucks' contract so early in the year on the back of sfa and putting total trust in "Bucks' way" seems to be having huge ramifications.
ps. as far as I'm aware there's absolutely nothing to the rubbish spouted by select few about Broommy and Kenno wanting to go home. |
Our club in disarray? I suggest you read Gary Lyon's article in The Age today. He basically says we're the best placed team going forward with our emerging young stars. |
Yes, good article. But he doesn't mention a single mature aged recruit, that's going to be part of Collingwood's future. |
We have one of the youngest teams going around. At times this year we've played 11-12 players with under 50 games experience. We can not be accused of not going young enough. Just "playing the kids" leads to more losses and that's not good for anyone. Right now, we probably have too many kids. A mix of experience and youth is important, so that the kids can be somewhat protected and can learn from the more experienced players.
You give two examples: Grundy and Kennedy. Grundy has had plenty of opportunity. He's played more games than most second year ruckmen. At the moment though, his form is well down, and continuing to play him could be detrimental to his development. Kennedy's a little more difficult for me to understand, I think he should be playing ahead of the limited Martin, but it does appear that he has some fitness issues that he needs to sort out. Sure, he can run out games in the VFL, but that's a very different physical standard. As we've seen with Broomhead and Martin, VFL form does not directly translate to AFL form or capacity. |
Just don't follow your logic at all. If recycled players aren't going to get you to a premiership you shouldn't play them. Seventeen other clubs told us that Russell and Armstrong have no value as draft picks, yet we drafted them. The message that sends to the supporters is that our club accepts mediocrity by drafting players no one else wants. Your point about not wanting to lose doesn't carry any weight either, because the AFL system encourages you to lose, because the more you lose, the higher the draft pick you get at the end of the season. The prize in any team sport is winning trophies, not finishing second or lower, so who cares where we finish. Total fallacy playing rejects from other clubs, thinking we can hold our position on the ladder until the young players come on. Fact is sides never hold their position on the ladder. They either go up or they go down. Collingwood at the moment is going down, the price we are paying for letting Dawes, Thomas and Shaw go. The up side is the young jets Hine has drafted to the club. Better to play them now to give them experience. Losing doesn't hurt if the player is mature and can learn from it. |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Torino, Italy
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It's hard to believe, but we will be 10th after the suns win, and if we lose to port and then west coast in Perth next week, 11th. If the tiges also beat the bummers, 12th.
We have a lot to play for to avoid really crashing into the depths.
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Buon Giorno |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | Beast wrote: | The winds are changing, slowly but surely our supporter base is starting to express bewilderment at our direction and the bloke thats taking us there.
The selection process has been getting more woeful by the week as has the use of a sub and the choice of players subbed off. Not only does Kenno not get a full game despite running out games in VFL and being are only viable crumbing option he gets dropped after performing on par with expectations for a sub.
Same goes for constant omission of JT who despite not taking the next step this year produces the numbers in his quiet games identical if not better than Blair does in his rare good games. And even if we've given up on winning the clearances, which is hard to believe, we still need JT in there for rotations especially in the absence of Ball.
The Club seems to be too afraid of the media backlash to come out and state we're going full rebuild and hence why the payers that clearly won't feature in our next tilt at the flag are still getting a game.
I'm not against seeing what Armstrong has to offer before the end of the year but his form has been reasonable in only the last couple of games, at the same time we've had Martin knocking on the door for the whole year and only getting a call up last week. Dwyer gets sent to VFL to find some form and gets recalled after an average performance while Kenno rips it up in the magoos just about every time and screams for a good run at the senior level but is in and out of the side like a yo-yo.
The whole side also looks completely devoid of confidence, comradery and inspiration, we were playing for our season last week and were in the game at 1/4 time only due to the Crows shocking accuracy...
And I wonder if Ed will address the disarray our Club is in anytime soon instead of diverting the attention by huffing and puffing about the issues we couldn't give a flying one about... Our Ed is in a tough spot right now but its all of his own doing, extending Bucks' contract so early in the year on the back of sfa and putting total trust in "Bucks' way" seems to be having huge ramifications.
ps. as far as I'm aware there's absolutely nothing to the rubbish spouted by select few about Broommy and Kenno wanting to go home. |
Our club in disarray? I suggest you read Gary Lyon's article in The Age today. He basically says we're the best placed team going forward with our emerging young stars. |
Yes, good article. But he doesn't mention a single mature aged recruit, that's going to be part of Collingwood's future. |
We have one of the youngest teams going around. At times this year we've played 11-12 players with under 50 games experience. We can not be accused of not going young enough. Just "playing the kids" leads to more losses and that's not good for anyone. Right now, we probably have too many kids. A mix of experience and youth is important, so that the kids can be somewhat protected and can learn from the more experienced players.
You give two examples: Grundy and Kennedy. Grundy has had plenty of opportunity. He's played more games than most second year ruckmen. At the moment though, his form is well down, and continuing to play him could be detrimental to his development. Kennedy's a little more difficult for me to understand, I think he should be playing ahead of the limited Martin, but it does appear that he has some fitness issues that he needs to sort out. Sure, he can run out games in the VFL, but that's a very different physical standard. As we've seen with Broomhead and Martin, VFL form does not directly translate to AFL form or capacity. |
Just don't follow your logic at all. If recycled players aren't going to get you to a premiership you shouldn't play them. Seventeen other clubs told us that Russell and Armstrong have no value as draft picks, yet we drafted them. The message that sends to the supporters is that our club accepts mediocrity by drafting players no one else wants. Your point about not wanting to lose doesn't carry any weight either, because the AFL system encourages you to lose, because the more you lose, the higher the draft pick you get at the end of the season. The prize in any team sport is winning trophies, not finishing second or lower, so who cares where we finish. Total fallacy playing rejects from other clubs, thinking we can hold our position on the ladder until the young players come on. Fact is sides never hold their position on the ladder. They either go up or they go down. Collingwood at the moment is going down, the price we are paying for letting Dawes, Thomas and Shaw go. The up side is the young jets Hine has drafted to the club. Better to play them now to give them experience. Losing doesn't hurt if the player is mature and can learn from it. |
I think you're confused about where we are at. We're not in full rebuild mode, in which case losing is cool, it gets you better draft picks. We're in an in between mode where we still have quality experienced players who are still young enough to be around for many years, as well as a group of quality young players. In this case it is possible to keep winning and playing finals. That is better for the development of your team than losing.
I don't get your Armstrong argument, seeing as tomorrow will be his first game for the club. Every team picks up players other teams don't want at some stage. Ceglar at Hawthorn is just one example. Most of the time these players don't work out, it's hardly a problem, they're speculative pick ups, and mostly only intended as backup in the first place. It's not as if we have a bunch of recycled players keeping our young players out of the team. The only "reject" we have is Armstrong, and he's only now about to debut. As I said, we've been very young this year, too young really, it's why we're a chance to miss the finals.
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Well done boys!
Last edited by AN_Inkling on Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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With lot of People saying we are next to no chance of winning.
We probably get up in win this;)
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I am Da Man |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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I agree Dave. We always play crap first up after a bye, but last week we actually did OK. Obviously, the Crows were better than OK and they won the game comfortably, but we weren't actually all that far off some decent form.
This week we have several things in our favour:
1: Second week after the bye, not first up.
2: Second week back for Reid, who will be better for the run. Ditto Elliott.
3: Seedsman's terrible game won't be repeated
4: Armstrong, Dwyer and Fasolo are good ins. Dwyer is underrated and gives us good link-up power with his mobility and cool head. Fasolo could be anything on any given day. I prefer him down back - especially with Seedsman and Young (our two best rebounders) out - but if he clicks on the day he can boot four in a quarter and transform the game. And if he's bad - and he can be terrible - we just have to hope that Bucks has the sense to slap the red vest on him straight away, even if it's only the second quarter. Armstrong is quick and knows how to find the pill. He is playing for his future, so let's see if he's got what it takes. He's 25 now so he should be coming into his prime.
5: Our midfield won't get smashed as badly in the clearances this time. If they do, then we are headed for the bottom half of the ladder with a bullet and just as well - we will obviously need to spend our first draft pick on a gun midfielder, 'coz if this lot can't cut the mustard with Beams and Pendlebury there to lead them and Witts winning in the ruck, then we need to throw the, away and get some better ones.
6: The very green young players will be that little bit better for the experience. I'm thinking of Broomhead and Martin. Martin will presumably be the sub. Don't be surprised if Broomy makes a bit of a statement this week. Adams is growing into his role too.
7: Kennedy will add pace and bite. (I am assuming that there will be a late change and Kennedy will come in. Or possibly Young.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Tannin wrote: | I agree Dave. We always play crap first up after a bye, but last week we actually did OK. Obviously, the Crows were better than OK and they won the game comfortably, but we weren't actually all that far off some decent form.
This week we have several things in our favour:
1: Second week after the bye, not first up.
2: Second week back for Reid, who will be better for the run. Ditto Elliott.
3: Seedsman's terrible game won't be repeated
4: Armstrong, Dwyer and Fasolo are good ins. Dwyer is underrated and gives us good link-up power with his mobility and cool head. Fasolo could be anything on any given day. I prefer him down back - especially with Seedsman and Young (our two best rebounders) out - but if he clicks on the day he can boot four in a quarter and transform the game. And if he's bad - and he can be terrible - we just have to hope that Bucks has the sense to slap the red vest on him straight away, even if it's only the second quarter. Armstrong is quick and knows how to find the pill. He is playing for his future, so let's see if he's got what it takes. He's 25 now so he should be coming into his prime.
5: Our midfield won't get smashed as badly in the clearances this time. If they do, then we are headed for the bottom half of the ladder with a bullet and just as well - we will obviously need to spend our first draft pick on a gun midfielder, 'coz if this lot can't cut the mustard with Beams and Pendlebury there to lead them and Witts winning in the ruck, then we need to throw the, away and get some better ones.
6: The very green young players will be that little bit better for the experience. I'm thinking of Broomhead and Martin. Martin will presumably be the sub. Don't be surprised if Broomy makes a bit of a statement this week. Adams is growing into his role too.
7: Kennedy will add pace and bite. (I am assuming that there will be a late change and Kennedy will come in. Or possibly Young.) |
Seedsman's quiet game certainly won't be repeated, and all 3 emergencies and any other likely inclusion played VFL this arvo. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Did they indeed. That's rare, isn't it? I thought we always kept one emergency back in case of an injury or illness on matchday.
(Seedsman won't be a lot quieter today than he was last week. Though he did do a little bit in the last quarter. I'm not quite sure what to make of Seedy. He looks the goods but hasn't really come on this year. He's had a shocking run with injury, so assuming he gets a fair crack at it with a decent pre-season, 2015 might be his breakout year. Hope so.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Full preseason will do the Seed the world of good, be a different player in 2015. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What kind of food do you like? |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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Kennedy dumped?? Jesus Christ the kid hasn't been given any sort of go. If he's one of the supposed "future" why do we keep dropping him in favour of old, slow VFL players? Just mind boggling.
FFS I hope I'm wrong but this side has echoes of the Essendon side for poorly balanced selections.
I'm up in Sydney and was looking to find somewhere to watch the game but I think I'll give it a miss now. |
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didick
didick
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
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^Clearly planning for next year already. They've even dropped the price of a guernsey to $55. A sure sign.
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"The night is a very dark time for me" Chaz Michael Michaels |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Well, things have played out nicely for us so far this round, and need to find a way to beat Port. This is the season defining game for us. Backs against the wall but everything to play for. It is our Grand Final.
Like other teams who lift when they play us, we'll see just how mentally tough our players are in being able to lift against a better opponent.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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kymbo5@yahoo.com.au
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
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Have a feeling that Elliott, Fasolo and Cloke will have very good games today.
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kymbo |
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