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MH17

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John Wren Virgo

"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."


Joined: 15 Jul 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:05 am
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Jezza wrote:
John Wren wrote:
so, there is a theory being circulated that mh017 is actually mh370. if this is the case, what has happened to mh017?

That's ridiculous to say the least.

Doesn't make any sense whatsoever considering there were different passengers and how can a plane that hasn't been found and disappeared for months all of a sudden reappear with a full tank of petrol without anyone knowing?

If MH17 is really MH370, then I'm Clint Eastwood Razz


look, i read it on facebook so it must have some semblance of truth.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:15 pm
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Shhh, don't give Tony Abbott ideas.

I mean, if a polystyrene fruit box found in an ocean current off Perth was MH370, and Australian police are allowed to wander around a war zone in Eastern Europe in search of MH17 clues like a dark Monty Python sketch, this could just be the glory the World's Village Idiot needs to turn around his international reputation!

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1061 



Joined: 06 Sep 2013


PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:34 am
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Wish someone would tell our foreign affairs minister to tone(no pun) down her make up.
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rocketronnie 



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:38 pm
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Well ain't this thought provoking...

Natural resources, Gas and The Ukrainian conflict...

http://crudeoilpeak.info/the-ukraine-conflict-peak-cheap-gas-and-the-mh17-tragedy

Its a gas folks...

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:58 pm
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^ interesting data (especially the fact that a drop in Russian hydrocarbon production preceded, and may have precipitated the collapse of the Soviet Union is interesting). But to suggest that access to Ukrainian natural gas is a major cause of the Russian incursions into Ukraine is drawing a very long bow. I think it is more about Putin's conception of himself as the Tsar of a great power, and a sullen refusal by Russia to face up to the collapse of its empire. That said, the fact that Ukraine is both the historic breadbasket of Russia and hydrocarbon-rich probably does not dissuade Putin from his imperialist pretensions.

Peak oil - the point of this website - is a fallacy, by the way. There are loads of unexploited hydrocarbons out there, should the price of a barrel rise to $200, rather than 100-odd as it is today. It's the cost of development, plus environmental restrictions, that limits the availability of hydrocarbons. When that price per barrel rises to such a level that renewables become competitive, then the switchover will start to occur en masse - but it won't be because of an absolute lack of molecules.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:39 am
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The MH17 tragedy, one year on:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11732678/One-year-on-MH17-evidence-against-separatists-appears-overwhelming.html

A good analysis from the Torygraph.

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:04 am
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Can't believe it's one year on.

I can't even recall the bodies of the Australian victims being returned.

Was this covered in the media?

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Jezza Taurus

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:12 am
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Same here Swoop! I can't believe how fast time has gone since the tragedy occurred.

Has anyone seen the recent footage that was released of the Russian separatists surveying the area and ransacking the scene after the plane crashed. It was just released recently and it's certainly damning evidence to suggest that they were responsible for the tragedy but I still think more evidence needs to be obtained before we can hold an individual or a group to account especially with many sides having polarising views on who they think is responsible.

In regards to the bodies of victims returning to Australia this happened over a period of several months. Not all bodies were returned instantly and it took a number of months for them to return via the Netherlands hence it may have not received much media attention or you may not remember it when it was occurring. There are various articles if you look it up through Google.

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swoop42 Virgo

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:19 am
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The Russians are guilty but good luck bringing anyone to account.

A terrible way to die for these poor people.

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Jezza Taurus

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:40 am
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My head says that the Donbass People's Militia (Russian separatist group) is behind it but I'm not ruling out anything until a full and independent investigation is completed.

One way or another I think bringing those to account will be extremely difficult as you said. Most likely the investigation's findings will say something along the lines that the accident was caused by a missile launch aimed at the plane (albeit mistaken for an enemy plane) but they won't be able to say for certain who fired it hence proving one's guilt will be difficult to achieve.

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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:52 am
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Cabin pressure failure at altitude. It happens.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:10 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
Cabin pressure failure at altitude. It happens.


Is there any evidence for that vs the standard hypothesis ?

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:50 am
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It's World Emoticon Day. I am looking for wry/droll/disbelief.
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3.14159 Taurus



Joined: 12 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:07 am
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Explosive decompression followed by total loss of structural integrity is what can happen when you fly a large plane over a war zone.

After MH 370 you'd think Malaysian Airlines would be the last air-line to endanger it's passengers needlessly ... but you'd wrong!
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:08 pm
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Jezza wrote:
Same here Swoop! I can't believe how fast time has gone since the tragedy occurred.

Has anyone seen the recent footage that was released of the Russian separatists surveying the area and ransacking the scene after the plane crashed. It was just released recently and it's certainly damning evidence to suggest that they were responsible for the tragedy but I still think more evidence needs to be obtained before we can hold an individual or a group to account especially with many sides having polarising views on who they think is responsible.

In regards to the bodies of victims returning to Australia this happened over a period of several months. Not all bodies were returned instantly and it took a number of months for them to return via the Netherlands hence it may have not received much media attention or you may not remember it when it was occurring. There are various articles if you look it up through Google.


There's no obvious smoking gun in the footage (which was apparently published by the BBC 12 months ago). We know that the plane fell in rebel-controlled territory, so their presence at the scene doesn't necessarily implicate them. What does is a few throwaway references at the beginning and end of the video suggesting that they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane.

But for me the most damning fact has always been the most obvious one: which way was the plane flying? The fact that it was from west to east makes it highly unlikely that the Ukrainians would have confused it for a Russian plane and highly likely that the Russian separatists could have confused it for a Ukrainian plane. Of course, we could come up with all kinds of theories about the Ukrainians doing this in the knowledge that it would be blamed on the Russians and thus get a PR victory, and I'm sure stranger things have happened in wars, but at the end of the day (as the link I posted shows), all the evidence points to a Russian missile.

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