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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | ...this is a fairly accurate description of how things are in Russia right now:
http://skibinsky.com/no-russian/
| Quote: | In simple terms, Russia is a mafia state. All the way from Moscow to regions and to small towns, everything is controlled by various mafia gangs. Police and judiciary are parts of most powerful gangs. They usually assist in extortion or theft of property earned by local small and medium size businessmen. Big business is subject to federal mafia clan wars.
The mafia-state formation is logical consequence of Russian economy: it is totally dominated by oil and gas revenues. Oil, gas and derivatives provide meaningful employment to about 1M people. Russian population is about 150M. How do they survive? The majority depends on various forms of government handouts.
With russian-style oil production you don’t have to think, innovate or even hire smart people. All you have to do is to cash the check. Gazprom is ranked as one of the most grossly inefficient enterprises in the world. So what happens when a small, totally incompetent minority controls country-wide oil rent while the rest of 149 million people are a burden? The answer is obvious: that 1M would create a mafia state to keep the rest of 149M in check by means of police and judiciary abuse and mass propaganda. |
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Now we know where Rupert Murdoch's vision for the Australian economy come from - minus the government handouts!
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Joel wrote: | | But let's not for a second put ourselves into the shoes of grieving relatives of those that were blown out the sky. Nah....we can't do that because "let's not put out way of life perspective onto those in a war zone". I guess basic human decency is too much to ask for. |
In a place like that, yes. sadly it probably is - and that's not even taking into account the influx of heavily armed Russian scum looking to make trouble. Who knows which of the various groups involved was responsible? Probably, we will never know.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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| pietillidie wrote: | | David wrote: | ...this is a fairly accurate description of how things are in Russia right now:
http://skibinsky.com/no-russian/
| Quote: | In simple terms, Russia is a mafia state. All the way from Moscow to regions and to small towns, everything is controlled by various mafia gangs. Police and judiciary are parts of most powerful gangs. They usually assist in extortion or theft of property earned by local small and medium size businessmen. Big business is subject to federal mafia clan wars.
The mafia-state formation is logical consequence of Russian economy: it is totally dominated by oil and gas revenues. Oil, gas and derivatives provide meaningful employment to about 1M people. Russian population is about 150M. How do they survive? The majority depends on various forms of government handouts.
With russian-style oil production you don’t have to think, innovate or even hire smart people. All you have to do is to cash the check. Gazprom is ranked as one of the most grossly inefficient enterprises in the world. So what happens when a small, totally incompetent minority controls country-wide oil rent while the rest of 149 million people are a burden? The answer is obvious: that 1M would create a mafia state to keep the rest of 149M in check by means of police and judiciary abuse and mass propaganda. |
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Now we know where Rupert Murdoch's vision for the Australian economy come from - minus the government handouts! |
Yep that is such an objective source. If you think it is you are dreaming. Its from a blog from an emigre entrepreneur capitalist who left over twenty years and admits that he has only returned twice to Russia in twenty years. Objective? Yeah sure...
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"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad". |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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He's also a Russian and one of many—both at home and abroad—who are horrified by the current regime and the direction in general that the country is heading in. That may not make him an objective source, but certainly one who has a stake in the issue.
The fact is that Russian dissidents have been saying this stuff for years. We're only just beginning to listen because this culture and the conflict it has created have finally begun to affect us.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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| David wrote: | He's also a Russian and one of many—both at home and abroad—who are horrified by the current regime and the direction in general that the country is heading in. That may not make him an objective source, but certainly one who has a stake in the issue.
The fact is that Russian dissidents have been saying this stuff for years. We're only just beginning to listen because this culture and the conflict it have created has finally begun to affect us. |
No doubt it is an authoritarian state with obvious fascist leanings. Putin likes to keep his black shirts at arms length for deniability but uses them in the suppression of minorities and dissidents when needed. The State takes care of the judicial punishment of such groups. Mafia state? That's just his view and misses its key features.
Meanwhile in Ukraine we have Svoboda (with ministers in the Government) and Right Sector pushing the same sort of fascist/authoritarian agenda as Putin from a Ukrainian angle. They have more in common with Putin than they like to portray.
What a mess!
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"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad".
Last edited by rocketronnie on Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| John Pilger wrote: | | We in the west are now backing neo-Nazis in a country where Ukrainian Nazis backed Hitler |
Methinks John has spent a little too much time in front of Russia Today. Still, at least good to get some of the other side's propaganda to go along with the heavily pro-US propaganda in our own papers.
(by the way, calling the 'side' we're backing 'neo-Nazis' is like calling the Gillard government radical environmentalists because it happened to include a few Greens senators. In other words, it's complete bullshit.)
| John Pilger wrote: | | For the Germans, it is a poignant irony that Putin is the only leader to condemn the rise of fascism in 21st-century Europe. |
*clears throat loudly*
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Oh yes as ever it's the evil west who's all at fault.
Please.
What do the US possibly have to gain by provoking a war with a nuclear equipped country like Russia other than total annihilation of both countries.
God it's tiring putting up with the anti US/Britain/Israel/Australia rhetoric.
We and they are far from perfect but I'll put my faith in there brand of democracy, government treatment of citizens and character of there people over the likes of Russia, China, Iraq and Sudan any day of the week.
Proud to be an Australian and thankful to live in this wonderful country.
End rant.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Neither the US nor Russia as a whole have much to gain by starting a war with each other (though military contractors might disagree). But both sides do have things to gain by intimidating the other side and reducing their control over the region, such as access to resources, regional influence and simply retaining their own superpower status. I don't think the US are nearly as closely involved in this conflict as Pilger thinks, but they're certainly not innocent bystanders either.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| swoop42 wrote: | Oh yes as ever it's the evil west who's all at fault.
Please.
What do the US possibly have to gain by provoking a war with a nuclear equipped country like Russia other than total annihilation of both countries.
God it's tiring putting up with the anti US/Britain/Israel/Australia rhetoric.
We and they are far from perfect but I'll put my faith in there brand of democracy, government treatment of citizens and character of there people over the likes of Russia, China, Iraq and Sudan any day of the week.
Proud to be an Australian and thankful to live in this wonderful country.
End rant. |
But, that's not a fashionable stance to take now is it? |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Torino, Italy
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I know who in the USA would be loving the reinstatement of the Cold War...
Weapons manufacturers, probably the strongest lobbiers in the land.
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Buon Giorno |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It bothers me because I'm not sure "our country is no. 1" is really a great lens to look at this issue through. This is a conflict between two countries on the other side of the world, one of which our allies (countries themselves that are not necessarily wonderful and don't necessarily have a great record with international interference) happen to support. We need to be assessing that conflict and our country's involvement in it rationally and even-handedly, not patriotically.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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| David wrote: | | John Pilger wrote: | | We in the west are now backing neo-Nazis in a country where Ukrainian Nazis backed Hitler |
Methinks John has spent a little too much time in front of Russia Today. Still, at least good to get some of the other side's propaganda to go along with the heavily pro-US propaganda in our own papers.
(by the way, calling the 'side' we're backing 'neo-Nazis' is like calling the Gillard government radical environmentalists because it happened to include a few Greens senators. In other words, it's complete bullshit.)
| John Pilger wrote: | | For the Germans, it is a poignant irony that Putin is the only leader to condemn the rise of fascism in 21st-century Europe. |
*clears throat loudly* |
How many ministers does the Fascist Svoboda Party have in the Ukrainian Government again? Hmm last time I looked it was three or four.
You need to do some background reading on Fascism and politics in the Ukraine David. Its alive and well and in government.
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"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad". |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Joel wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | Oh yes as ever it's the evil west who's all at fault.
Please.
What do the US possibly have to gain by provoking a war with a nuclear equipped country like Russia other than total annihilation of both countries.
God it's tiring putting up with the anti US/Britain/Israel/Australia rhetoric.
We and they are far from perfect but I'll put my faith in there brand of democracy, government treatment of citizens and character of there people over the likes of Russia, China, Iraq and Sudan any day of the week.
Proud to be an Australian and thankful to live in this wonderful country.
End rant. |
But, that's not a fashionable stance to take now is it? |
Works for me, I've never been fashionable. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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The interesting thing about the Pilger article for me is his suggestion that, despite our great freedom of the press, we in the West are still blinded by propaganda. As swoop says, we largely see America as a force for good, who may make some mistakes, while China and Russia are seen as nefarious and as treating their people abominably. The question is, how much of that is true, and how much of it is a twisting of the truth the likes of which we have seen clearly in the case of MH17? I mean, we still refer to the "Tiananmen Square massacre" when it's likely that there was little to no killing in the square itself, and the extent of that which took place outside of the square is still not known with any accuracy. America is constantly involved in "well meaning mistakes" that have disastrous consequences and violently intervenes in other countries more than any other, yet is still largely seen as a force for good. On the other hand, any such instances by a foreign power not friendly to the West are blown out of all proportion in our media. It's impossible to think that this kind of constantly biased reporting does not have an effect on the way we view the world.
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Well done boys! |
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