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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Museman wrote: | | Malaysian airlines was flying a passenger aircraft full of civilians 300 meters above the restricted zone |
300 metres? What are you smoking? Or was that a typo. No airliner ever travels at that altitude. Typical cruise altitude is 30,000 to 45,000 feet - that's 10-15 kilometres.
(Still seems like a weird choice of route, mind you, but they would have been way above the range of any insurgent-style missile ever made, up where only a serious, state-of-the-art high-power military missile can reach. We are talking large equipment here with big trucks to transport it and a whole squad of trained troops under an officer.)
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| Tannin wrote: | | Museman wrote: | | Malaysian airlines was flying a passenger aircraft full of civilians 300 meters above the restricted zone |
300 metres? What are you smoking? Or was that a typo. No airliner ever travels at that altitude. Typical cruise altitude is 30,000 to 45,000 feet - that's 10-15 kilometres.
(Still seems like a weird choice of route, mind you, but they would have been way above the range of any insurgent-style missile ever made, up where only a serious, state-of-the-art high-power military missile can reach. We are talking large equipment here with big trucks to transport it and a whole squad of trained troops under an officer.) |
They were at 33000, restricted zone is 32000....
they were 300 meters above it. |
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mandy 
Joined: 03 Jun 2001
Location: Glen Iris
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Wouldn't that be 1000 then?
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| mandy wrote: | | Wouldn't that be 1000 then? |
1000 feet yes.....= 304 meters |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Other airlines have been flying this same route without incident since this civil war started (and for years, decades before that I presume) and while it seems odd and not without risk that it would continue to be used under the current circumstances let's not start moving the blame from where it belongs and that's the Russian backed rebels that shot it out of the sky.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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You people....
It's not just odd...it's not just weird.
As has now been proven it was outright dangerous and thus stupid to be flying there.
It doesn't matter that there hasn't been a previous incident...it matters that there was risk of an incident at all.
Why take it?
298 people are dead because a business wanted to save on fuel. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
No, 298 people are dead because some dickwad decided to show how big his dick was by shooting down a plane 10km up in the air on the off chance that it was someone he didn't like.
All the relevant authorities as i understand it had said the route was safe to fly provided you stayed above a certain height, which they did.
FWIW, it seems clear that the arsewipe who gave the order to fire is known, I hope he's tried and convicted, given a honey enema and staked to a bull ants nest.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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^
yeah dickwats shooting $h!t in a war...who'd a thunk it. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Of course, you two, we could always try something new and juggle a few balls at once instead of insisting that events in a complex world only have one legitimate perspective.
Just a warning note to all, I wouldn't be deeming anything that comes from the mouth of any party involved here to be "fact", even if one of the parties does happen to be a vile thug who enjoys topless photo ops.
There is no shortage of opportunistic scum circling this mess ready to leverage it to advantage, including the usual opportunistic oligarchs and politicians.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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If you consider the EU and Russia as equally untrustworthy, I think your relativism has gone too far. One of these is a borderline dictatorship with the blood of Chechnya and georgia on its hands, and the other is a largely herbivorous attempt to supersede nationalism. If you see these as moral equals, or even equals in terms of creibility, I think you are probably undermining the values i'm sure you sincerely hold.
EDiT : it may be that you are solely talking of the two "Ukrainian" sides in the conflict, in which case you are right to be sceptical until much more is known.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
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| it was an accident it seems. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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How very very sad - what a senseless tragic loss 
The world lost a great , gifted and committed man in Joep Lange - I had the pleasure of meeting and talking to him on a couple of occasions at WHO seminars - his work in HIV research and his commitment to making the best treatment available to people in poorer countries particularly Africa was outstanding.
I'm not suggesting the loss of Joep is more important than the life of anyone else unfortunate enough to be on that plane - just a personal memory.
The blame for this atrocity cannot be shifted from those that made the decision and fired the missile - but there is a tiny bit of me that wonders if Malaysian had not had the year they have had which must have cost them a bomb would they like some airlines e.g Qantas have changed routes when the alert was issued in April regardless of the increased cost?
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Mugwump wrote: |
If you consider the EU and Russia as equally untrustworthy, I think your relativism has gone too far. One of these is a borderline dictatorship with the blood of Chechnya and georgia on its hands, and the other is a largely herbivorous attempt to supersede nationalism. If you see these as moral equals, or even equals in terms of creibility, I think you are probably undermining the values i'm sure you sincerely hold.
EDiT : it may be that you are solely talking of the two "Ukrainian" sides in the conflict, in which case you are right to be sceptical until much more is known. |
Yes; it's just a general sane principle. There simply is no "our side" in the new multipolar world (if there ever was).
Remember, five minutes ago Anglo-America started the unrivaled disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan; two minutes ago the wealthy European elite drove Germany to inflict immense suffering on the Eurozone with a sadistic and demonstrably ineffective response to the GFC in order to protect debtors over creditors; somewhere in between Germany blocked close scrutiny of Russia's activities when it suited and the US beat the drums of war against Iran and provoked Russia with an idiotic plan for a European missile defense shield.
The point being there are enough powerful scumbags anywhere you bother looking to warrant a universal suspicion of everything you hear about such incidents.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Museman wrote: | ^
yeah dickwats shooting $h!t in a war...who'd a thunk it. |
Wasn't like they were traipsing through a mine field singing the theme music to the banana splits ignoring all the signs, it's a frikking commercial airliner moving along 10km above the issues full of innocent people.
Usually even semi sane dickwads during wartime take a moment to check if who they're about to shoot at are actually unfriendly. 
You heard the intercepted communications yet? From the sound of it the main talent of the people in charge in that area would be as organic speedhumps.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Plane shouldn't have been there, there has been alerts. (300 metres above the no fly zone is too close for me, I mean if someone told you there was a was zone 300 metres down, you'd get on the flight?) Russia should not be feeding the so called seperationists missiles, and someone should have checked what they were shooting at.
The only innocent part in this, is the people on board, may they all rest in Peace.
And I think Stui's suggested punishment is pretty good, but I'd make him swallow a belly full of stones too. (Read that in a book, don't remember the book, just the 2 pages describing how it's done til the belly splits open and the carion fly in to clean up the mess!)
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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