Kyle Martin.
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Martin deserves a game. |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | ^^Very small sample size, and he went pretty much as I would have expected in those games.
Anyway, my only point above was that VFL is very different to AFL. Saying a player must be selected because he got plenty of ball in the VFL is too simplistic.
If others think Martin deserves a game based on the attributes he can bring to the senior side, fine. My opinion is that he's not really what we need, but given that we are struggling I could see him getting a game. Now we'll see what the selectors think. |
Your logic is $£$%^%%$ horrible.
Martin is running rampant in the reserves, racking up ridiculous numbers and kicking goals.
Blair is failing to have any significant impact in the seniors, and has been for many weeks.
Martin is capable of playing the same role as Blair, and Eade has publicly said that they are competing with each other for the same role.
Seems like a no brainer, but according to you, VFL is different to AFL, so there's no point in upgrading a guy who is performing to an exceptional standard, because some other guy who got promoted to the seniors had no impact in his two games there.
Martin is a bloody clever player. He spreads as well as anyone and is very smart about where he runs to. He has a knack of knowing where the ball will end up going before it happens. He is easily the best performed VFL player in the league this year, all while being tagged every week. He destroyed Jackson this year from the Tigers, who is one of the few players to have ever successfully tagged Ablett in the past few years.
But yeah, VFL is different to AFL, so let's let him rot in the twos...  |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Martin deserves a game. |
craig mcrae suggests he is close to a call up.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Can actually kick long and straight and accurate
main reason why he doesnt deserve a game
He makes the others except pendles look poor
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Stupied wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | ^^Very small sample size, and he went pretty much as I would have expected in those games.
Anyway, my only point above was that VFL is very different to AFL. Saying a player must be selected because he got plenty of ball in the VFL is too simplistic.
If others think Martin deserves a game based on the attributes he can bring to the senior side, fine. My opinion is that he's not really what we need, but given that we are struggling I could see him getting a game. Now we'll see what the selectors think. |
Your logic is $£$%^%%$ horrible.
Martin is running rampant in the reserves, racking up ridiculous numbers and kicking goals.
Blair is failing to have any significant impact in the seniors, and has been for many weeks.
Martin is capable of playing the same role as Blair, and Eade has publicly said that they are competing with each other for the same role.
Seems like a no brainer, but according to you, VFL is different to AFL, so there's no point in upgrading a guy who is performing to an exceptional standard, because some other guy who got promoted to the seniors had no impact in his two games there.
Martin is a bloody clever player. He spreads as well as anyone and is very smart about where he runs to. He has a knack of knowing where the ball will end up going before it happens. He is easily the best performed VFL player in the league this year, all while being tagged every week. He destroyed Jackson this year from the Tigers, who is one of the few players to have ever successfully tagged Ablett in the past few years.
But yeah, VFL is different to AFL, so let's let him rot in the twos... |
Your logic is impeccable stupied. Surely the kid must be given a go, especially now that Maxy's retirement opens up another spot on our list. |
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leonmagic 
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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bizarre that he hasn't at least been given a call up this year. regardless of his form, i thought he showed more than enough last season to prove that he was capable of locking down a senior spot for himself...really strange.
i would've had him and JT on the same level coming into this season - and i rate JT very highly. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | | Defender wrote: | | If he doesn't get his chance after the disgraceful performances our senior team has put up over the last 2 weeks he should quit, 15 clearances under a tag, and didn't make the VFL bests PMSL. |
Maxy didn't quit.
Rejected by club after club and stuck at it.
Martin might not be getting a chance to shine at AFL level but he is getting a chance to demonstrate persistence, determination, humility, self-belief.
I hope he does this rather than spit the dummy and have a sook like you are recommending he does. |
Yep, think the kid has the determination, and a lot stronger character than people seem to give him credit for. As I understand it, he was told he needed to work on a couple of things and he's busted his nuts to do that, must be very close to getting his senior chance. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | | Defender wrote: | | If he doesn't get his chance after the disgraceful performances our senior team has put up over the last 2 weeks he should quit, 15 clearances under a tag, and didn't make the VFL bests PMSL. |
Maxy didn't quit.
Rejected by club after club and stuck at it.
Martin might not be getting a chance to shine at AFL level but he is getting a chance to demonstrate persistence, determination, humility, self-belief.
I hope he does this rather than spit the dummy and have a sook like you are recommending he does. |
If he's got half a brain, he'll be pushing for a contract with Carlton, St Vomit, Norf, Hawthorn, West Coast - any club that wants a good footballer to play senior football.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | ^^Very small sample size, and he went pretty much as I would have expected in those games.
Anyway, my only point above was that VFL is very different to AFL. Saying a player must be selected because he got plenty of ball in the VFL is too simplistic.
If others think Martin deserves a game based on the attributes he can bring to the senior side, fine. My opinion is that he's not really what we need, but given that we are struggling I could see him getting a game. Now we'll see what the selectors think. |
Small sample size? He's played one more game than Brromhead who you compared him too, dig up bro.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Adz
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: Heidelberg
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| He may seek opportunities at other clubs if not played this year you'd suggest. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Adz wrote: | | He may seek opportunities at other clubs if not played this year you'd suggest. |
Sorry Adz, but that reads like a HAL comment....just saying.  |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What you said was too complicated for me. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Stupied wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | ^^Very small sample size, and he went pretty much as I would have expected in those games.
Anyway, my only point above was that VFL is very different to AFL. Saying a player must be selected because he got plenty of ball in the VFL is too simplistic.
If others think Martin deserves a game based on the attributes he can bring to the senior side, fine. My opinion is that he's not really what we need, but given that we are struggling I could see him getting a game. Now we'll see what the selectors think. |
Your logic is $£$%^%%$ horrible.
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I think you'll find it's perfectly sound. Your reading of it may not be though  .
| Stupied wrote: |
Martin is running rampant in the reserves, racking up ridiculous numbers and kicking goals.
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Yes he is. As he did last year.
| Stupied wrote: |
Blair is failing to have any significant impact in the seniors, and has been for many weeks.
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Depends on your definition of significant, but ok, he's not exactly dominating.
| Stupied wrote: |
Martin is capable of playing the same role as Blair, and Eade has publicly said that they are competing with each other for the same role.
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Capable of playing the same role as Blair? Broadly, as in small forward, or in full detail? I'd come close to accepting either, but for me it's part of the reason I'm not clamouring for his inclusion (I'll explain later). I've not heard Eade's comments.
| Stupied wrote: |
Seems like a no brainer,
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I don't see it as such. I think it's a marginal selection call that's not likely to have a great deal of impact on the side.
| Stupied wrote: |
but according to you, VFL is different to AFL, so there's no point in upgrading a guy who is performing to an exceptional standard, because some other guy who got promoted to the seniors had no impact in his two games there.
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This was not my point at all. It was simply that the AFL and VFL are different levels. To simply say that someone is doing very well in the VFL means they must play AFL is simplistic. I just used Broomhead, and his AFL vs VFL form as an example. It's not at all to say that Martin should not be called up, or Broomhead for that matter.
It's my opinion in fact that Broomhead will play against Adelaide and that Martin probably will too.
| Stupied wrote: |
Martin is a bloody clever player. He spreads as well as anyone and is very smart about where he runs to. He has a knack of knowing where the ball will end up going before it happens. He is easily the best performed VFL player in the league this year, all while being tagged every week. He destroyed Jackson this year from the Tigers, who is one of the few players to have ever successfully tagged Ablett in the past few years.
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No arguments here. He is an excellent player at VFL level, and I'm sure he could be a decent player at AFL level.
Now I've answered your points, I'll again state my views on Martin, because somehow I have the reputation for not liking the bloke and not wanting him in the team. Not sure how that happened  .
I'd be perfectly happy for Martin to be in the team, he certainly has some ability and has the potential to be a decent player at the senior level. What I disagree with, is the view that he must be in the team and is a no brainer selection. For me, the question of Martin vs Blair is a minor one. We have the incumbent small forward who's doing a decent job (averaging 15 disposals) and the potential small forward who so far in his senior career averaged 16 disposals and 1.5 goals (against Melbourne, Bulldogs, Brisbane and one other team). Martin has shown excellent form in the VFL, Blair's form has been only decent in the seniors, so I understand why a swap might be on the cards.
So yes, you could replace Blair with Martin, I would not complain, but to me it's more of a like for like than I'd like. I see both more as inside mids who are forced to play forward due to lack of size, strength and pace. Martin at AFL level is not going to create a lot of goals, he'll get on the end of it and finish nicely, but not much more. In fact, I'd back Blair to create more goals overall than Martin, with his in and under work. Really, in the seniors Martin is going to need to be as much of a defensive forward as Blair, because he doesn't have the assets to be a quality offensive small forward. Ideally, if I'm replacing Blair in the side, and I'd like to if Goldsack is in the forward line, I'd want a truly creative and attacking forward option, eg. Fasolo rather than Martin.
Finally, I'll say it again: I do not dislike Martin in any way. I am not against his selection, and would be happy for him if he were to be picked. It is just my opinion that if we are replacing Blair, Martin's not the ideal option, as he has too many of the same limitations and will need to play a similar type of role.
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | ^^Very small sample size, and he went pretty much as I would have expected in those games.
Anyway, my only point above was that VFL is very different to AFL. Saying a player must be selected because he got plenty of ball in the VFL is too simplistic.
If others think Martin deserves a game based on the attributes he can bring to the senior side, fine. My opinion is that he's not really what we need, but given that we are struggling I could see him getting a game. Now we'll see what the selectors think. |
Your logic is $£$%^%%$ horrible.
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I think you'll find it's perfectly sound. Your reading of it may not be though .
| Stupied wrote: |
Martin is running rampant in the reserves, racking up ridiculous numbers and kicking goals.
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Yes he is. As he did last year.
| Stupied wrote: |
Blair is failing to have any significant impact in the seniors, and has been for many weeks.
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Depends on your definition of significant, but ok, he's not exactly dominating.
| Stupied wrote: |
Martin is capable of playing the same role as Blair, and Eade has publicly said that they are competing with each other for the same role.
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Capable of playing the same role as Blair? Broadly, as in small forward, or in full detail? I'd come close to accepting either, but for me it's part of the reason I'm not clamouring for his inclusion (I'll explain later). I've not heard Eade's comments.
| Stupied wrote: |
Seems like a no brainer,
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I don't see it as such. I think it's a marginal selection call that's not likely to have a great deal of impact on the side.
| Stupied wrote: |
but according to you, VFL is different to AFL, so there's no point in upgrading a guy who is performing to an exceptional standard, because some other guy who got promoted to the seniors had no impact in his two games there.
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This was not my point at all. It was simply that the AFL and VFL are different levels. To simply say that someone is doing very well in the VFL means they must play AFL is simplistic. I just used Broomhead, and his AFL vs VFL form as an example. It's not at all to say that Martin should not be called up, or Broomhead for that matter.
It's my opinion in fact that Broomhead will play against Adelaide and that Martin probably will too.
| Stupied wrote: |
Martin is a bloody clever player. He spreads as well as anyone and is very smart about where he runs to. He has a knack of knowing where the ball will end up going before it happens. He is easily the best performed VFL player in the league this year, all while being tagged every week. He destroyed Jackson this year from the Tigers, who is one of the few players to have ever successfully tagged Ablett in the past few years.
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No arguments here. He is an excellent player at VFL level, and I'm sure he could be a decent player at AFL level.
Now I've answered your points, I'll again state my views on Martin, because somehow I have the reputation for not liking the bloke and not wanting him in the team. Not sure how that happened .
I'd be perfectly happy for Martin to be in the team, he certainly has some ability and has the potential to be a decent player at the senior level. What I disagree with, is the view that he must be in the team and is a no brainer selection. For me, the question of Martin vs Blair is a minor one. We have the incumbent small forward who's doing a decent job (averaging 15 disposals) and the potential small forward who so far in his senior career averaged 16 disposals and 1.5 goals (against Melbourne, Bulldogs, Brisbane and one other team). Martin has shown excellent form in the VFL, Blair's form has been only decent in the seniors, so I understand why a swap might be on the cards.
So yes, you could replace Blair with Martin, I would not complain, but to me it's more of a like for like than I'd like. I see both more as inside mids who are forced to play forward due to lack of size, strength and pace. Martin at AFL level is not going to create a lot of goals, he'll get on the end of it and finish nicely, but not much more. In fact, I'd back Blair to create more goals overall than Martin, with his in and under work. Really, in the seniors Martin is going to need to be as much of a defensive forward as Blair, because he doesn't have the assets to be a quality offensive small forward. Ideally, if I'm replacing Blair in the side, and I'd like to if Goldsack is in the forward line, I'd want a truly creative and attacking forward option, eg. Fasolo rather than Martin.
Finally, I'll say it again: I do not dislike Martin in any way. I am not against his selection, and would be happy for him if he were to be picked. It is just my opinion that if we are replacing Blair, Martin's not the ideal option, as he has too many of the same limitations and will need to play a similar type of role. |
I think that is the bottom line - if KM was the hard tackling/in and under player that an "in form" BLAIR is, he would have already replaced him.
There would be no debate. |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| Quote: | | In fact, I'd back Blair to create more goals overall than Martin, with his in and under work. |
Martins in and under work is top notch. I'd argue better than Blair's. He is a more reliable kick, get in better positions to create goals, and his defensive work has improved out of sight. You say Blair is doing a decent job. I can't agree with that. His defensive work recently has been lackluster, he's not kicking goals, and his delivery inside 50 is atrocious.
He currently adds nothing to the team that Martin couldn't do better. |
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