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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | I don't in any way think the government of the Gaza Strip are blameless in this. As I've said somewhere else in the thread, I think they're probably even less reasonable than the Israeli government and possibly a lot scarier if they had access to the same weaponry. But they don't. They're minnows in every respect compared to Israelstandard of living, access to resources, weaponryand their casualties are always much, much higher in these conflicts. So, I don't heap all the blame on Israel, but I don't apportion equal share of responsibility, either. Israel are the bigger force here and they have to take the higher ground. |
Why? if you don't have a gun but you keep throwing rocks at a man who does until he cracks and shoots you, why is the fault his? |
I'm not going to be throwing rocks at your letterbox  . Especially not if you own a gun  .
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Well done boys! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | I don't in any way think the government of the Gaza Strip are blameless in this. As I've said somewhere else in the thread, I think they're probably even less reasonable than the Israeli government and possibly a lot scarier if they had access to the same weaponry. But they don't. They're minnows in every respect compared to Israelstandard of living, access to resources, weaponryand their casualties are always much, much higher in these conflicts. So, I don't heap all the blame on Israel, but I don't apportion equal share of responsibility, either. Israel are the bigger force here and they have to take the higher ground. |
Why? if you don't have a gun but you keep throwing rocks at a man who does until he cracks and shoots you, why is the fault his? |
I'm not going to be throwing rocks at your letterbox . Especially not if you own a gun . |
Just recently bought one, planning on buying another soon. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Why do you want two letterboxes? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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So when someone throws rocks at one and I shoot them, I have a spare.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Is there someone who posts regularly in VPT you'd like to test you and throw some rocks at your letterbox so you could shoot em? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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LOL, nah, this is all bullshit argy bargy fun and games. Nothing happening here worth holding grudges about let alone getting physical, if some twat annoys you , you can put them on ignore.
So, having said that, dance varmint.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I'm thinking conair
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Obama wasn't a slave nor does he have slave ancestry. His father is Kenyan and his Mother is white. |
And raised for the most part by his mothers white grandparents wasn't he?
Obama is bi-racial.
Fact.
Yet we are continued to be told he's African American.
Amazing how far white liberal guilt has taken us.
Hell it's even overcome what would otherwise be considered the blatant sexism of his mother being practically wiped from his lineage. |
Hmm. Probably not.
It's far more likely you're just struggling to cope with a world where you don't control other people's identities in the same way you did back in primary school.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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And the leader of the white liberal guilt party has his say.
His mother is white.
Fact.
He's biracial.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/biracial
It's pretty simple.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Nope, sorry. That's identity for dummies.
Like all of us, he's as he chooses identify, no matter how hard you suckle upon the breast of certainty to comfort yourself.
As you mature you'll become more comfortable with identity being both complex and largely outside your control.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | I don't in any way think the government of the Gaza Strip are blameless in this. As I've said somewhere else in the thread, I think they're probably even less reasonable than the Israeli government and possibly a lot scarier if they had access to the same weaponry. But they don't. They're minnows in every respect compared to Israelstandard of living, access to resources, weaponryand their casualties are always much, much higher in these conflicts. So, I don't heap all the blame on Israel, but I don't apportion equal share of responsibility, either. Israel are the bigger force here and they have to take the higher ground. |
Why? if you don't have a gun but you keep throwing rocks at a man who does until he cracks and shoots you, why is the fault his? |
Because killing someone is still a crime even if they were throwing rocks at you. And if you accidentally shoot five bystanders while killing him, that's an even graver crime.
Self-defence has to be proportionate.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | I don't in any way think the government of the Gaza Strip are blameless in this. As I've said somewhere else in the thread, I think they're probably even less reasonable than the Israeli government and possibly a lot scarier if they had access to the same weaponry. But they don't. They're minnows in every respect compared to Israelstandard of living, access to resources, weaponryand their casualties are always much, much higher in these conflicts. So, I don't heap all the blame on Israel, but I don't apportion equal share of responsibility, either. Israel are the bigger force here and they have to take the higher ground. |
Why? if you don't have a gun but you keep throwing rocks at a man who does until he cracks and shoots you, why is the fault his? |
Because killing someone is still a crime even if they were throwing rocks at you. And if you accidentally shoot five bystanders while killing him, that's an even graver crime.
Self-defence has to be proportionate. |
Proportionate self defence is a bullshit legal quibble. Why should a victim of violence have to make graduated responses to the violence of an instigator. How do I know if someone who's broken into my house has a knife, a stick, a gun? If somebody has breached the social contract and invaded my property, they're leaving in a bag. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 because I was worried about 'proportional self defence'.
If someone is throwing rocks, they're intending to hurt or kill. If they continue throwing rocks at someone with a gun, they're going to get shot.
This of course has nothing to do with a modern military response to home made rocketry. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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But even you agree with me in principle because you presuumably don't think it's ok to kill someone who just slapped you in the face, or punched you, or even stole your wallet. It's one thing to use all possible means to defend your person; quite another to pull out a knife and stab Jim at the pub to death because he's getting a bit punchy. We don't live in a prehistoric forest. So, you obviously agree that self-defence should be proportionate; you just perhaps have a wider interpretation of what 'proportionate' means.
The Israeli government do, however, seem to think that proportionate self-defence is "bullshit". A lot of innocent lives are being lost because of that mentality.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | But even you agree with me in principle because you presuumably don't think it's ok to kill someone who just slapped you in the face, or punched you, or even stole your wallet. It's one thing to use all possible means to defend your person; quite another to pull out a knife and stab Jim at the pub to death because he's getting a bit punchy. We don't live in a prehistoric forest. So, you obviously agree that self-defence should be proportionate; you just perhaps have a wider interpretation of what 'proportionate' means.
The Israeli government do, however, seem to think that proportionate self-defence is "bullshit". A lot of innocent lives are being lost because of that mentality. |
Plenty of other places agree. You break into a house in some USA states the home owner can legally kill you regardless of what weapons you carry, if any.
Sorry, IMO Hamas are playing a game all about soliciting public opinion to their side by sacrificing civilians to the cause. Double win for them. Few less mouths to feed, few more people on the anti Israel bandwagon.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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