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Israeli/Palestinian conflict: will it ever end?

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:15 pm
Post subject: Israeli/Palestinian conflict: will it ever end?Reply with quote

It all seems like a horrific, wearying form of deja vu: in retaliation over a couple of their citizens being murdered, Israel is bombing Gaza again, and hundreds of Palestinian civilians are now being killed. This will provide fuel for years of revenge attacks on Israel, another generation of radicalised Palestinians and of course further attacks on Gaza.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/14/egypt-calls-for-israel-hamas-ceasefire

It just seems like an eternal cycle. Given the immense human cost, the international community needs to be getting far tougher on those who escalate these situations, and that has to start with the most powerful authority in the area: the Israeli government. They may feel morally vindicated in avenging the deaths of innocents, but by refusing to adopt a measured response—say, working together with Palestinian law enforcement to find the murderers and bring them to justice—they're simply putting the lives of their own citizens in further danger. The same, of course, goes for those elements of Hamas who are actively looking for conflict.

For all such future incidents, a response of de-escalation needs to be absolutely mandatory. If the Israeli government refuses to do so, they need to receive immediate international sanctions. This can't be tolerated.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:19 pm
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Evil, Fascist nation masquerading as a peace loving beacon of democracy in the Middle East. Until there is a fully independent Palestine with East Jerusalem as its Capital and free movement between Gaza and the WB this will never end.
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1061 



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:47 pm
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Who started shooting first this time and 99% of the time Israel demolishes it's aggressors?

Wokko wrote:
Evil, Fascist nation masquerading as a peace loving beacon of democracy in the Middle East. Until there is a fully independent Palestine with East Jerusalem as its Capital and free movement between Gaza and the WB this will never end.


This is the language that starts it all they're just a Bunch of middle eastern Housos!
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:27 pm
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When Hamas goes, when the settlers go, when islamic jihad goes & when the extreme right wing in Israel don't have so much balance of power then that will be th time.

The murder of 3 Israeli teenagers was not the start of this conflict now David, that with due respect is simplistic. It served as a trigger.

The broader issues relate in many respects to Hamas's amassed weaponry allowed to grow under Morsi. There have been multiple & frequent rocket attacks from Gaza well before this outbreak of hostilities. Under Morsi in Egypt, Hamas, Islamic Jihad & the Al Nusra types got hold of caches of sophisticated weaponry from Libya, Syria & Iran.

For Israel's survival this won't be tolerated. As usual civilians are the ones who cop it especially it when" they" hide weapons & rocket launchers in populated areas - & no, not very part of Gaza is densely populated - while lot of it is..

That is part of the realpolitik here & now.

Anyway, I found it more important to know about Ian Thorpe.

EDIT: as I write this Israel has accepted the Arab Ceasefire proposal but Hamas military wing has rejected it & continue to launch missiles.

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Last edited by watt price tully on Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:33 pm
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....DP...
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Last edited by watt price tully on Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:37 pm
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Are we ever over Morsi in Egypt Hamas Islamic Jihad the Al Nusra types got hold of caches of sophisticated weaponry from Libya Syria Iran? How did you feel when you found it more important to know about Ian Thorpe ?
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:42 pm
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I subscribe to the Israel Defense Force twitter feed. They're certainly putting out their views and It's pretty clear they're accusing Hamas of being the provocateurs and of hiding behind civilians.

I'm not sure if this is able to be ended to be honest, even if you managed to drag all the extremists on both sides out of any discussion and negotiate a settlement, the extremists would still exists and stir shit up again at the first opportunity.

Maybe what needs to happen is just drag every man woman and child out of there and blow the whole $Ł$%^%%$ area up. Turn it all into a smoking crater, all the religious artifacts and symbols in particular.

Then let anyone live there who wants to, there won't be anything left of religious significance to anyone.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:46 pm
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Sorry my body cannot yet rotate.
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:57 pm
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HAL wrote:
Sorry my body cannot yet rotate.


Yeah I have that problem too

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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:01 pm
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Everyone goes on about the religious / political aspect of it all but no one looks at why anyone would want Gaza, perhaps it might have something to do with natural gas reserves...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jul/09/israel-war-gaza-palestine-natural-gas-energy-crisis


http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-and-natural-gas-the-israeli-invasion-and-gaza-s-offshore-gas-fields/11680

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/business/2014/01/russia-palestine-offshore-gas-field-gaza.html#


But then, who really wants peace in Gaza and self determination for Palestinians? certainly not any of the major players like Iran, Israel, Syria, USA...

...War is such a profitable business, everyone wants those security and military contracts; doesn't matter if its bagels or bombs

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:20 pm
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^ Don't forget Russia, who are also heavily invested in this conflict. As you say, plenty of chess games going on behind the scenes.

Stui Magpie wrote:
I subscribe to the Israel Defense Force twitter feed. They're certainly putting out their views and It's pretty clear they're accusing Hamas of being the provocateurs and of hiding behind civilians.


Always good to get a balanced perspective on the situation. Shocked Wink

watt price tully wrote:
EDIT: as I write this Israel has accepted the Arab Ceasefire proposal but Hamas military wing has rejected it & continue to launch missiles.


If Israel are looking for any moral high ground, they lost it the minute they killed the first Gazan civilian. Easy to be the "bigger man" and walk away from a fight after you've bashed your opponent senseless.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:20 pm
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David wrote:
^......

If Israel are looking for any moral high ground, they lost it the minute they killed the first Gazan civilian. Easy to be the "bigger man" and walk away from a fight after you've bashed your opponent senseless.


With respect, that's a simplistic analysis of the situation David. Things are much more complex than goodies & baddies. Hamas has not been bashed senseless at all. They re still holding onto much weaponry. I should''t need to remind you of their charter.

Be careful of buying into simple economic reductionism as shown in Pi's references and as a means to explain complex events - even if promulgated by 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:33 pm
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watt price tully wrote:
With respect, that's a simplistic analysis of the situation David. Things are much more complex than goodies & baddies. Hamas has not been bashed senseless at all.


Not Hamas, but Gaza as a whole. They are bashed senseless every time Israel goes on these revenge campaigns, and that's exactly the aim—to intimidate and deter those who would target Israeli citizens.

I obviously don't see this situation as "goodies vs baddies" (or "baddies vs baddies", lol). Hamas are a nasty bunch and probably twice as scary on their own as the fascist Israeli government—although obviously they have considerably less power. But you've got to look at proportionate force, and every time either side goes over it by a little the results are tragic, both in the short term and long term. That's why it is so urgent for Israel to mitigate its responses.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:38 pm
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David wrote:
watt price tully wrote:
With respect, that's a simplistic analysis of the situation David. Things are much more complex than goodies & baddies. Hamas has not been bashed senseless at all.


Not Hamas, but Gaza as a whole. They are bashed senseless every time Israel goes on these revenge campaigns, and that's exactly the aim—to intimidate and deter those who would target Israeli citizens.

I obviously don't see this situation as "goodies vs baddies" (or "baddies vs baddies", lol). Hamas are a nasty bunch and probably twice as scary on their own as the fascist Israeli government—although obviously they have considerably less power. But you've got to look at proportionate force, and every time either side goes over it by a little the results are tragic, both in the short term and long term. That's why it is so urgent for Israel to mitigate its responses.


It's appallingly tragic for the poor there, the bulk of the population.

In reality I can't see anyway out of the quagmire.

There are many decent folk on both sides who do not want war & killing, who want to work for peace & work together to achieve this. However the extremists on both sides prevent the rational voices from being heard. The results are tragic.

Israel will use the ceasefire to publicly display its bone fides, & if Hamas rejects it will be seen as the wreckers.

The anti missile weaponry that Israel possess & enhanced has meant that Hamas has not succeeded in delivering a "blow" to Israel that it desperately seeks before it can call a ceasefire.

......

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Last edited by watt price tully on Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:22 am; edited 2 times in total
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watt price tully Scorpio



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:48 pm
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........DP....
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