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Pirates Beware

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:55 pm
Post subject: Pirates BewareReply with quote

George Brandass is threatening those who download shows etc. So don't download Game of Thrones even though it's already been aired in the US. Laughing

Typical ignorant politician who has no idea, what next? Strip search Aussies coming back from overseas who have purchased DVD's? Morons. Oh well more tax payer money wasted.

RRRRRRRR
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:28 pm
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Looks like I'll be paying for a private VPN and giving Brandis the finger. Pretty sick of the 'theft' line too. If I borrow it from the library is it 'theft' too? Idiots.
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swoop42 Virgo

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Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:39 pm
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Rupert is getting his reward.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:41 pm
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Just set the series record on Game of Thrones on foxtel, watch it shortly after it airs in the US, no biggie.

Now movies that I CBF going to the cinema to watch or TV programs that don't get a regular TV slot here (like Arrow) sorry knackers, I'm bringing it down. Torrent style.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:26 pm
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On one level, I kind of almost see his argument. Although the distributors could and should be doing a far better job of getting films and TV episodes to us within a reasonable time period, piracy does genuinely hurt the industry and I don't know if there are many serious intellectual defences for not paying for stuff (though I would still be interested to read them—Wokko's 'library' analogy is a thought-provoking one).

So, I'm not so concerned about the prospect of people having to pay for their episodes of Game of Thrones or Girls. What does bother me is that this policy might affect people who download from the vast wealth of classic and international cinema online that has never been (and likely never will be) released locally (if at all). There are some wonderful films that I simply would have never been able to see if I hadn't had access to torrenting. That's not a question of money, just basic availability. I doubt Brandis and co. would appreciate the nuance, but I wish that there was some exemption for sites that don't carry new or generally available material. Some of them should be considered vital cultural institutions and government-funded—I'm serious.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:18 pm
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David, I really doubt you're breaching copyright with what you download.

While I get the argument about how illegal downloads hurt the industry, the answer isn't just on stopping the downloads but in the movie studios not being so frigging greedy. There's an acceptable middle ground here, just needs some common sense to find it.

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:01 pm
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Piracy was supposedly killing the video game industry too. Well, that was until the video game industry decided to distribute content via services like Steam that allow people to buy and download the game they want at cheaper prices than they get in a retail store. This coupled with a real effort to produce good content has largely seen that debate silenced.

Now we move on to movies. I can watch a movie with a friend at their house, borrow it from the library like I said or watch it on TV. I haven't paid for any of these, I was never going to buy the movie, yet I've watched it anyway. Now If instead I download this movie, watch it once and then deleted it, I've somehow magically cost the movie industry a $49.95 blu ray sale. No, no I haven't. I haven't cost it anything, I was never buying that movie. I haven't stolen anything, I watched a movie.

If I could download an exact copy of a car and drive it to VicRoads and register it, I haven't stolen a car, I've copied one. Nobody has lost this car. Same goes for a download.

I downloaded the entire season 1 of Game of Thrones and watched it a while back. I then, based on how good the show was bought the blu ray set. If however there'd been a cheap, modern distribution method that let me buy individual episodes, online and download them then I, and millions like me would never have pirated it. The fault lies with the industry and its 20th century insistence on maintaining monopolised, inefficient and expensive methods of content distribution. Just like video games, and music after it, they must adapt to the new paradigm or die a slow death of 1000 cuts. Rupert seems to be welcoming death.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:24 pm
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^

You just expanded on the middle ground I referred to.

I agree.

Think of all the costs involved in making and distributing an actual DVD, from the burning, printing, printing artwork which gets cut folded and put into a plastic case, making the plastic case and shipping costs to move all these items around several times including final distribution, packing and getting on a shelf somewhere etc and remove all those costs by doing digital downloads.

If the studios can't still make a reasonable profit they're doing something wrong.

maybe the whole industry should recalibrate their expectations. That would include people who play make believe for a few weeks on camera getting paid $20 million and thinking because they earn that amount of money they suddenly are elevated to the position of being intelligent and are able to speak authoritatively on all matter of things.

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HAL 

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Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:26 pm
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Perhaps it would.
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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:38 pm
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Hubby asked me to download the Lego movie (hmm ok) and thankfully I got so many warnings that Warner is tracking the downloads, I didn't have to!
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:10 am
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David wrote:
On one level, I kind of almost see his argument. Although the distributors could and should be doing a far better job of getting films and TV episodes to us within a reasonable time period, piracy does genuinely hurt the industry and I don't know if there are many serious intellectual defences for not paying for stuff (though I would still be interested to read them—Wokko's 'library' analogy is a thought-provoking one).

1. You can't tell people what to do with things they own (much like Wokko's library analogy); one person can share their property with millions if they want.

2. Monopoly products captured by monopolistic companies are not subject to rational pricing and natural social change (see the impact of iTunes).

3. Following from #2, pricing people out of mainstream social meaning and discourse (say, core cultural artifacts such as the footy or influential movies or games) excludes people from their right to participate in mainstream society.

#3 reminds me of the criticism you often hear of lower-income people "having the latest phone yet complaining they have no money". Lower-income people, and even more so lower-income young people, need to have mobile phones to participate reasonably in mainstream society.

I don't give a toss about myself accessing movies and the like, but no one has the right to use monopoly control over cultural artifacts to stress and isolate people by making it hard for them to participate in mainstream society. Just imagine the psychological damage done to young people alone when we price them out of cultural meaning.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:30 am
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Perhaps this isn't the thread for it, but I would take a somewhat more critical view of aspirationalism. For me, it's no matter of personal righteousness—I have no time for the old 'entitlement' catch-cry, which was tired and idiotic overused well before Hockey and Abbott wheeled it out—but I do see something here beyond mere desire for participation; more, capitalism and its use of aspiration and the relative concept of obsolescence as manipulative tools for getting money out of people.

Therefore, while it may well be true that a mobile phone is necessary for a minimum level of participation in today's society, it seems to me that the same can't be said for the very latest iPhone. I actually think that that's often the lie promoted by advertisers and businesspeople. Obviously, this doesn't apply to everything—I'm not suggesting asceticism—but I'm sure we can think of some very nasty examples of this, like for instance the beauty industry.

So, I think there's good reason to talk of people "living beyond their means"—that is, it is a real and problematic phenomenon—I just think it's unfortunate that it's so often used to castigate those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds as opposed to being directed into an (in my view, valid) critique of the manipulative power of capital.

Of course, that's just all an aside because I agree with your argument in this context: access to a range of art/entertainment products should indeed be considered a non-negotiable. So, I accept the thrust of your argument. I just worry that a long-term culture of not paying for movies will have the same effect the Internet has had on newspapers: that is to say, the paywalls have been put up too late.


Last edited by David on Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:43 am
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^I don't disagree with your aversion to aspirationalism, but that's more an inflationary effect separate to the right to participate in mainstream society.

And as much as I know what you mean, I doubt it means much to people who already feel ostracised from society or who already feel psychologically ashamed because of their outsider status. Remember, as much as we do our best to promote diversity and tolerance as a solution, the basic human desire to participate and be accepted is a fundamental genetic social trait (and therefore a fundamental right).

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:27 am
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How did a thread about piracy suddenly get onto the psychological impacts on people who can't afford to go to the cinema to watch the latest installment of "the Hobbit"?
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:28 am
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^^ Have to agree Stui.

QA time

Why do I download shows & movies?

A. Re TV Shows or serials. I got sick and tired of watching a series that starts say Weds 8.30pm, then a couple of weeks later the rating are low so it's shifted to Mon 10.30pm then it disappears totally. Throw in a TV series that is 12 months old that has already been viewed in the US and is all over the WWW. Now I just download them and watch them in my own time. Does that cost the movie business money? Well I miss the commercials but when they are on I am not watching anyway so no. I still pay my foxtel subscription so I would suggest so far my activity hasn't cost them anything.

Now Movies, I simply don't like going to the Cinemas, only time I go is Gold Class and that's rare. If I like a show I would download it when it becomes available in DVD quality. That normally means it has run its race at the Cinemas or its just a crap show or it has been leaked by someone as a DVD screener on the inside.

If it wasn't available to download I would wait till it came out on TV or Foxtel. Again I have not cost the movie businesses money in my actions.


Microsoft battled piracy for years with exorbitant charges on its OS Software and has turned around and made it's OS software cheaper and affordable. Pirated versions of windows 7/8 is now rare.

I use Steam for my games, it's affordable. If we ever get ultra High speed broadband in this Country. Movies and TV shows will be watched via the net. Foxtel, Free TV will become non existent.
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