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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| AN_Inkling wrote: |
| stui magpie wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | | Change the wording from "Chaplain" to "Counsellor", keep the religious zealots away, and what's the problem???? |
Bingo. Hire some people who have counselling skills and qualifications without the religious (any religion) link. |
It's what we had before the programme started. Since, many of the qualified counselors have been moved on and replaced by the unqualified religos.
The Labor policy on this was more sensible and gave more individual agency to the schools (ironic given this is the usual LNP mantra). They were to provide money for counselors, whether these were religious or not was up to the schools to decide. |
My personal preference is that in order to be government funded the "counsellor" should be non religious. If a particular school wants a chaplaincy service instead, pay for it yourself.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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^^I completely agree.
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Well done boys! |
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sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
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In an age where the youth suicide rate is way too high, the government was more interested in the religious background (chaplains), than in the professional qualifications (counsellors/psychologists) of who was to be employed in state schools.
Our kids deserve better, our kids deserve the best.
I also fail to see how a Liberal Party could support a policy such as this, as it doesnt equate with their usual platform of small government / freedom of choice / devolution of power away from the bureaucracy.
They insisted on a big government approach in demanding that schools have these chaplains employed, thus bureaucratizing and eliminating choice from school authorities.
Again, I applaud the High Court! |
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laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
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| stui magpie wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: |
| stui magpie wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | | Change the wording from "Chaplain" to "Counsellor", keep the religious zealots away, and what's the problem???? |
Bingo. Hire some people who have counselling skills and qualifications without the religious (any religion) link. |
It's what we had before the programme started. Since, many of the qualified counselors have been moved on and replaced by the unqualified religos.
The Labor policy on this was more sensible and gave more individual agency to the schools (ironic given this is the usual LNP mantra). They were to provide money for counselors, whether these were religious or not was up to the schools to decide. |
My personal preference is that in order to be government funded the "counsellor" should be non religious. If a particular school wants a chaplaincy service instead, pay for it yourself. |
Agree Stui, It really is quite simple.
_________________
" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| sixpoints wrote: | In an age where the youth suicide rate is way too high, the government was more interested in the religious background (chaplains), than in the professional qualifications (counsellors/psychologists) of who was to be employed in state schools.
Our kids deserve better, our kids deserve the best.
I also fail to see how a Liberal Party could support a policy such as this, as it doesnt equate with their usual platform of small government / freedom of choice / devolution of power away from the bureaucracy.
They insisted on a big government approach in demanding that schools have these chaplains employed, thus bureaucratizing and eliminating choice from school authorities.
Again, I applaud the High Court! |
Keep in mind, they had to reach this verdict twice.
| Quote: | In 2012, the court agreed with Williams that the program was unconstitutional. The Federal Parliament passed "quick fix" legislation that it hoped would legitimise not just the chaplaincy program but the 400-odd other Commonwealth-funded activities, accounting for up to 10 per cent of federal government spending, that were similarly invalidated by the decision.
So back to the High Court. On Thursday, the judges ruled, 6-0, that the Commonwealth's legal Band-Aid had not worked: the spending on the chaplaincy program was as illegal as ever.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/chaplaincy-program-has-no-place-in-state-schools-20140619-zsen7.html#ixzz354vkYi6t |
Which government was in power in 2012?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
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| stui magpie wrote: | | sixpoints wrote: | In an age where the youth suicide rate is way too high, the government was more interested in the religious background (chaplains), than in the professional qualifications (counsellors/psychologists) of who was to be employed in state schools.
Our kids deserve better, our kids deserve the best.
I also fail to see how a Liberal Party could support a policy such as this, as it doesnt equate with their usual platform of small government / freedom of choice / devolution of power away from the bureaucracy.
They insisted on a big government approach in demanding that schools have these chaplains employed, thus bureaucratizing and eliminating choice from school authorities.
Again, I applaud the High Court! |
Keep in mind, they had to reach this verdict twice.
| Quote: | In 2012, the court agreed with Williams that the program was unconstitutional. The Federal Parliament passed "quick fix" legislation that it hoped would legitimise not just the chaplaincy program but the 400-odd other Commonwealth-funded activities, accounting for up to 10 per cent of federal government spending, that were similarly invalidated by the decision.
So back to the High Court. On Thursday, the judges ruled, 6-0, that the Commonwealth's legal Band-Aid had not worked: the spending on the chaplaincy program was as illegal as ever
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/chaplaincy-program-has-no-place-in-state-schools-20140619-zsen7.html#ixzz354vkYi6t |
Which government was in power in 2012? |
No government should ever push any religious bandwagon in this country. This is only emphasized when it has anything to do with our kids.
On this topic I have been infuriated by the Libs, disgusted by Labor & enraged by the Libs again. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yep. Labor, particularly under Rudd, were as tight with the ACL as any other party. As with distinctly unChristian treatment of refugees, this stuff has bipartisan support unfortunately.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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CP
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne
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...and the moral decline away from being a 'Christian' country' continues.
Oh, well, at least the illegal boat-travelling criminals have been stopped in their tracks.
I would have said "dead in their tracks" but that only happened under the humanist ALP regime... |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| CP wrote: | ...and the moral decline away from being a 'Christian' country' continues.
Oh, well, at least the illegal boat-travelling criminals have been stopped in their tracks. |
Coincidence? You decide.
Personally, I'm rapt to see the decline of religious zealotry in this country, and can only hope that comparatively compassionate religious/humanistic values can survive in its absence.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Yep. Labor, particularly under Rudd, were as tight with the ACL as any other party. As with distinctly unChristian treatment of refugees, this stuff has bipartisan support unfortunately. |
Agreed, but I think you'll find that in 2012 Gillard was Prime Minister and remained so until June 2013.
To be fair to her though I think it was Gillard who introduced a change so that schools could choose to use religious or non religious counselors. Bud removed that change and affirmed the arrangement with the current mob.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| CP wrote: | ...and the moral decline away from being a 'Christian' country' continues.
Oh, well, at least the illegal boat-travelling criminals have been stopped in their tracks.
I would have said "dead in their tracks" but that only happened under the humanist ALP regime... |
Cowardly Pontius Pilate just had them killed elsewhere so he could pretend his hands were clean.
Anf if you wanted more Christianity, why did you vote for an anti-Gospels, Jesus hater?
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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CP
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne
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| pietillidie wrote: | | CP wrote: | ...and the moral decline away from being a 'Christian' country' continues.
Oh, well, at least the illegal boat-travelling criminals have been stopped in their tracks.
I would have said "dead in their tracks" but that only happened under the humanist ALP regime... |
Cowardly Pontius Pilate just had them killed elsewhere so he could pretend his hands were clean.
Anf if you wanted more Christianity, why did you vote for an anti-Gospels, Jesus hater? |
You're frothing at the mouth again. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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good article from the ABC (thanks Tannin!)
explains part of the reason im still satisfied with my choice of schooling for my kids:
"Years ago, schools pitched themselves to mum and dad as places where John and Joanne would fulfil their potential, and become successful. Achievement was the emphasis.
But we live in more disturbed and anxious times. The mention of achievement is always there, of course, but a new theme has emerged. We now want our kids to be resilient and happy. We want them to experience wellbeing. We want John and Joanne not simply to know how to succeed, but how to fail and come back."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-24/jensen-if-you-want-kids-to-be-happy-try-religion/6797634
just as important as ABC 123 in my mind:
"A few years ago, my own kids came home talking about some characters they'd been introduced to: Connie Confidence, Gabby Get Along, Pete Persistence, Oscar Organisation, and Ricky Resilience. I was intrigued. We had nothing like that in the 1970s! It is all part of teaching children to manage their emotions and thought patterns well."
it doenst have to be religion specific, but some kind of wellness program, some preparation for real life, some kind of teaching to bring out the empathy that is surely part of all of us? no matter how deeply buried.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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There are certainly some positive aspects to religious belief and religious teaching, but they do not require a religious framework in order to be taught. Empathy can be taught within a secular program. To do otherwise is to endorse lying to children, and that has no place within a public education system.
Whatever positive effects believing in Jesus can have on the mind, it's still a fairytale. I don't agree with children being exposed to that stuff at all, but if parents feel they must brainwash their kids, then they should take them to a place of worship or religious school, not impose it on everybody else.
And while we're at it - to return to the thread title - it's about time we got some properly qualified counsellors into schools, too.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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