Iraq in ruins
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| David a serious question if I may because I'm sure many if not all would like to know how is Lola going with the Pregnancy? |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Appreciate the question, 1061, but not really sure this is the thread for it!
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Where is the like button!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| David wrote: | | Appreciate the question, 1061, but not really sure this is the thread for it! |
True true I thought for some reason we were in another thread, this is what happens when one does a 15 hour shift! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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It seems that the success template for Western military projects is being painfully established through trial and error. It seems to be something like (i) get involved only against the vilest of genocidal enemies, or those who directly threaten us ; (ii) use air power only, never occupation ; (iii) act only against an enemy that has local opposition and which can be isolated from the air ; and (iv) where the situation is so bad and chaotic that the risk of creating chaos is the lesser of two evils.
If you cannot thereby alter the outcome, then all that can be done, it seems, is to house, feed and medicate the refugees.
It worked in Serbia and Libya and the early stage of Afghanistan. A variant on it worked in Tony Blair's magnificent intervention in Sierra Leone in 2000, which saved many lives. If Isis is sufficiently large and organised, it is worth trying here.
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^You're confusing a tired public, fewer nut job neocons holding sway in Western governments, budget deficit obsession, and more powerful geopolitical opposition with something resembling an intelligent process.
Diligent, sane intervention is the extremely uncommon situation you get when none of the usual whackos and grabbers can get a hold of the process. If your assessment of the situation is correct, expect it to last two minutes before it is miraculously "unlearned" again.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | So - pay attention here, I don't do it often - I am supporting the present US actions. |
Just wanted to quote that.
Credit to you for being able to do that.
Now a general comment.
The allied forces left before they should have for a number of reasons, 1 of them was the people wanting the "invading" troops out. We can argue about whether they should have been there in the first place, but once they went in that point becomes moot. They had a responsibility to leave the country in a position to self govern and self defend. They squibbed that.
So hopefully this time, it's (a real lot) shorter and after this Isis mob gets SFU the people there can catch a break.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| pietillidie wrote: | ^You're confusing a tired public, fewer nut job neocons holding sway in Western governments, budget deficit obsession, and more powerful geopolitical opposition with something resembling an intelligent process.
Diligent, sane intervention is the extremely uncommon situation you get when none of the usual whackos and grabbers can get a hold of the process. If your assessment of the situation is correct, expect it to last two minutes before it is miraculously "unlearned" again. |
^ yes, probably right. The other factor in it being unlearned is that those on the receiving end will change their tactics to make sure that points (i)-(iv) do not apply - hiding amid civilian populations, etc. In the short term, evil is very inventive. In the long term, though, it's pretty unstable, and sometimes it just needs to be left to burn itself out and normalise, consuming the lives of innocents as it does. We are very lucky to live where we do.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | So - pay attention here, I don't do it often - I am supporting the present US actions. |
Just wanted to quote that.
Credit to you for being able to do that.
Now a general comment.
The allied forces left before they should have for a number of reasons, 1 of them was the people wanting the "invading" troops out. We can argue about whether they should have been there in the first place, but once they went in that point becomes moot. They had a responsibility to leave the country in a position to self govern and self defend. They squibbed that.
So hopefully this time, it's (a real lot) shorter and after this Isis mob gets SFU the people there can catch a break. |
They left too late and burned any goodwill those in Iraq had for them. The transition was massively mishandled and did more to create enemies than bring stability. Staying any longer would have achieved nothing. The original plan was a quick handover to Iraqi governance. That was the only chance of any real success, as soon as they became occupiers the war for hearts and minds was lost.
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Did they deserve it? |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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So, potentially saving what 2,000, 3,000 lives isn't enough for the US to get there hands dirty and do the honourable thing and put troops on the ground to ensure these peoples safety?
Not good enough Obama.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-14/us-troops-land-on-iraqs-besieged-mt-sinjar/5669586
P.S-What quirk of genetics lead to this group of people producing some children that have a more distinctive western look than what you'd normally associate with people of the middle east?
Lot's of traveling christian missionaries? 
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| swoop42 wrote: | So, potentially saving what 2,000, 3,000 lives isn't enough for the US to get there hands dirty and do the honourable thing and put troops on the ground to ensure these peoples safety?
Not good enough Obama.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-14/us-troops-land-on-iraqs-besieged-mt-sinjar/5669586
P.S-What quirk of genetics lead to this group of people producing some children that have a more distinctive western look than what you'd normally associate with people of the middle east?
Lot's of traveling christian missionaries? |
Essentially, they are Caucasians not Arabs yet they are all decedents of the Moustachistan race.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Normally when you find pockets of white European looking folk somewhere to the east of the Bosphorus and South of Russia you can blame Alexander the Great. Not sure on this one, but often a fair bet. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| swoop42 wrote: | So, potentially saving what 2,000, 3,000 lives isn't enough for the US to get there hands dirty and do the honourable thing and put troops on the ground to ensure these peoples safety?
Not good enough Obama. |
Every time the US does put troops on the ground in another country they get hammered for it and called invaders. When they leave they get criticised for not doing enough while they were there.
Does the term "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sound familiar?
In this case, they are already IMO doing overs to help out. They have no skin in this game and aren't the world police.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | Normally when you find pockets of white European looking folk somewhere to the east of the Bosphorus and South of Russia you can blame Alexander the Great. Not sure on this one, but often a fair bet. |
I was wrong. Arabs in the main are caucasian too. However the most astonishing variation of appearance that I've seen was in Turkey. All sorts of features. Turkey is a cast country with a diverse ethnic mix. Shame it's leader is an Islamic fundamentalist wearing a suit.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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