Iraq in ruins
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| David wrote: | Lol, thanks (although I'm not sure this is the best thread to be pointing that out given I lost my shit at PM a few pages back).  It's not that I don't get stung by these insults, it's just that I don't think getting into a fight achieves anything. |
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
You're a true Christian David, whether you believe in God or not. In fact most believers I know weren't very Christian and many unbelievers were. |
|
|
|
 |
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | David wrote: | | Lol, thanks (although I'm not sure this is the best thread to be pointing that out given I lost my shit at PM a few pages back). It's not that I don't get stung by these insults, it's just that I don't think getting into a fight achieves anything. |
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
You're a true Christian David, whether you believe in God or not. In fact most believers I know weren't very Christian and many unbelievers were. |
If so, that makes both David and the Jesus figure wrong, because "necessary force" is far more sophisticated than "turn the other cheek". "Necessary force" enables you to also prevent harm, though neither "necessary force" nor "turn the other cheek" solve the problems of motive and asymmetric information.
You have to analyse these received traditions rather than grant them arbitrary reverence 
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | ^
It's called the square leg bar you pillock.  (You can tell Poms know nothing about cricket by the way they play)
Ponsford stand, level 1, right behind M30.
If the bastard is open. lat two G games I've been to they obviously weren't expecting a big crowd so it was shut.  |
Gees just call me a dickhead so I don't have to google it!
We can meet out the front, if it's closed we go to the bar to the right!
Hic
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | David wrote: | | Lol, thanks (although I'm not sure this is the best thread to be pointing that out given I lost my shit at PM a few pages back). It's not that I don't get stung by these insults, it's just that I don't think getting into a fight achieves anything. |
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
You're a true Christian David, whether you believe in God or not. In fact most believers I know weren't very Christian and many unbelievers were. |
Mate, I seriously hope you are joking. Nothing to do with David- just that sentence.
Although having read this thread- nothing would surprise me 
David is a very well raised young man who mostly has respect for others. He is very polite, well spoken and does not allow others to get under his skin. A well mannered young man indeed.
None of this has jack shite to do with being of any religion. It is though, the way a man should behave in general.
_________________
" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| laird wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | David wrote: | | Lol, thanks (although I'm not sure this is the best thread to be pointing that out given I lost my shit at PM a few pages back). It's not that I don't get stung by these insults, it's just that I don't think getting into a fight achieves anything. |
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
You're a true Christian David, whether you believe in God or not. In fact most believers I know weren't very Christian and many unbelievers were. |
Mate, I seriously hope you are joking. Nothing to do with David- just that sentence.
Although having read this thread- nothing would surprise me
David is a very well raised young man who mostly has respect for others. He is very polite, well spoken and does not allow others to get under his skin. A well mannered young man indeed.
None of this has jack shite to do with being of any religion. It is though, the way a man should behave in general. |
Don't be so literal, sometimes it's just the vibe. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Thanks for the information. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/islamic-state-nightmare-not-holy-unholy-mess-iraq
| Quote: | But what has been crucial, Dodge says, is “not ancient hatreds but this collapse of state power”.
Which partly explains IS’s choice of targets. It attacks wherever it sees a gap, an area of weakness where the state’s writ does not run or that will be too feeble to resist. So when IS’s advance south to Baghdad was repelled, the organisation turned and looked for vacuums to fill. Christian areas were one such target; the remote Sinjar stronghold of the Yazidis is another. With a merciless appetite for territory, IS hunts down any patches of Iraq or Syria it believes can be conquered easily.
In Syria, the degradation of the state has been the consequence of a civil war in which the government of Bashar al-Assad has turned its fire on its own people. In Iraq, the explanation comes in two parts. First, the US-led invasion of 2003 smashed the Saddam state. Second, the current prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, has hollowed out what was left, eviscerating national institutions lest they pose a challenge to him and his narrowly Shia ruling circle. Most important, he gutted the Iraqi army, seeing a body of one million men under arms as a personal threat rather than a national asset. Little wonder that Mosul, defended by al-Maliki cronies rather than able commanders, fell at the first sight of Isis. Despite its expensive US training, the Iraqi army simply melted away.
The void in Iraq can, then, be doubly blamed on the US. The 2003 invasion is, of course, the original sin. But the manner of the withdrawal in 2011 – gifting state-of-the-art US military hardware worth billions to an army headed by al-Maliki, only for that hardware to fall into the hands of Isis – was clearly a catastrophic error too. |
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/islamic-state-nightmare-not-holy-unholy-mess-iraq
| Quote: | But what has been crucial, Dodge says, is “not ancient hatreds but this collapse of state power”.
Which partly explains IS’s choice of targets. It attacks wherever it sees a gap, an area of weakness where the state’s writ does not run or that will be too feeble to resist. So when IS’s advance south to Baghdad was repelled, the organisation turned and looked for vacuums to fill. Christian areas were one such target; the remote Sinjar stronghold of the Yazidis is another. With a merciless appetite for territory, IS hunts down any patches of Iraq or Syria it believes can be conquered easily.
In Syria, the degradation of the state has been the consequence of a civil war in which the government of Bashar al-Assad has turned its fire on its own people. In Iraq, the explanation comes in two parts. First, the US-led invasion of 2003 smashed the Saddam state. Second, the current prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, has hollowed out what was left, eviscerating national institutions lest they pose a challenge to him and his narrowly Shia ruling circle. Most important, he gutted the Iraqi army, seeing a body of one million men under arms as a personal threat rather than a national asset. Little wonder that Mosul, defended by al-Maliki cronies rather than able commanders, fell at the first sight of Isis. Despite its expensive US training, the Iraqi army simply melted away.
The void in Iraq can, then, be doubly blamed on the US. The 2003 invasion is, of course, the original sin. But the manner of the withdrawal in 2011 – gifting state-of-the-art US military hardware worth billions to an army headed by al-Maliki, only for that hardware to fall into the hands of Isis – was clearly a catastrophic error too. |
|
So it's all the wests fault, this is why I say pull out not just the military but in every dealing with these countries don't trade with them or anything and let them fight it out without us actually caring.
Watch just how quickly they stop when they realise no ones watching. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
1061, how closely have you been following this conflict, exactly? Do you realise that Iraq has been invaded by a militia group and that its government is practically on its knees (and that one of the key reasons it can't defend itself is because of the instability caused by the 2003 war)? Given all that, I'm not sure imposing trade sanctions on Iraq is exactly the best means of stopping ISIS from slaughtering minorities. 
Hold any opinion you like, by all means, but please read some basic information first.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I have a Syrian friend who was actually on ACA months ago after a visit to his former country so I know whats going on but as I said to him this kind of BS is why he moved to Australia!
What I consider a normal country doesn't do this.
I just think at some point maybe not in our lifetime but sooner or later the rest of the world is going to wash their hands of countries that behave like this. We've tried everything but to ignore them and turn our collective backs on them. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
It's true in some respects that a policy of non-intervention might be better in the long run, but I find the concept of "turning our backs" terribly inhumane when such a humanitarian crisis is unfolding. That doesn't mean that we need to support US intervention, necessarily, but when the majority of Iraqis are crying out for it I think it has a lot more justification.
When you say "countries", you have to remember that the people of Iraq and their elected government are the victims here. They didn't ask to be invaded by these psychopaths. Besides the horror of tens of thousands of Yazidis potentially being slaughtered or sold into slavery, this is a massive risk for the region. One possible consequence of us "turning our backs on them" could be for ISIS to take complete control of Iraq and then use that as a platform to move into other Middle Eastern countries. Whether or not that's our problem now, it very soon would be.
Watch this and tell me if you still feel like washing your hands:
http://youtu.be/HdIEm1s6yhY
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
No I am not going to watch any propaganda you have to back up your point of view.
Sure it's not as simple as black and white but it's not as complicated as some mostly westerners make it out to be.
Walk away and let what ever happens happen but the west must walk away and not go back because a few youtube videos show a crisis. |
|
|
|
|
Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Yep. Well posted, David.
The USA has a terrible burden of guilt here - well, it should have but the Yanks are too stupid, too ignorant, and too egotistical to recognise their own appalling past mistakes - but be that as it may, they are to be supported and applauded for their recent decision to help. US airpower can't fix the problem, but it can help the local troops on the ground defend themselves. similarly, the US and EU can and should do what they can to get supplies in to the thousands of civilians at risk of being starved to death by the Islamist meatheads. Well, that's the choice: starve or surrender and be slaughtered. So - pay attention here, I don't do it often - I am supporting the present US actions.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 1061 wrote: | | No I am not going to watch any propaganda you have to back up your point of view. |
It's not propaganda, it's just a two-minute video of a female Iraqi politician addressing parliament. I found it moving. You can make of it what you will.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
