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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Well after seeing the footage of the nearly naked guys being marched to their death - that's murder straight up, not a 'necessity' of war- it looks like a date with destiny.
That's just disgusting, bragging about mass killings
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | Is parliament actually going to vote on this, or is Abbott going to make use of his special "war powers"?
Personally, I'm cautiously supportive of an air strike against militants, but I'd hope that America and co. have done their homework here. Precedent would suggest they've done nothing of the sort. |
No nation should have to go to parliament for military decisions, it is too important to play politics with. I'm happy for the executive, whether that be the PM or Cabinet to make these decisions.
Also I'd be happy for us to go into Syria and support Assad in getting rid of these zealots and also to help clean them up in Iraq. Anyone supporting this group is evil and I wouldn't shed a tear for them or hesitate for a second in ending them. It's not often there is so little moral ambiguity, even Nazi soldiers had more of a moral high ground than these psychos. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| There is no solution. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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What a mess this has become. It''s frightening how barbaric and evil ISIS is and how they don't seem to have any regard for human life whatsoever. Even the majority of Al-Qaeda has denounced this group of terrorists.
America's in a difficult position here as they have kind of created this mess by invading Iraq in 2003 and eventually toppling Saddam but the outlook post-Saddam in attempting to transition Iraq into a democratic state failed miserably. On the one hand, America can ignore what is happening in Iraq and Syria and stay out of it all together but at the same the Americans and the West will feel that they have a moral obligation to protect innocent civilians within these territories as well.
ISIS are also deluded with their five-year plan if anyone has read about them wanting to take over half the Middle East, Africa and even Spain within the next five years 
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Jezza
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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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| swoop42 wrote: | Are we starting to see now why Hussein was such a feared evil bastard?
He had to remain the king of the jungle otherwise a pack of opportunistic hyenas would have eaten him alive. |
In some aspects I do see what you're saying Swoop but it seems like these guys also admired Saddam as they executed the judge who sentenced Saddam to death back in 2006. It's a fair conclusion that Saddam's leadership of intimidation and fear is what kept these people in check.
Thing is though Saddam was a secularist (he believed in the separation of church and state) whereas ISIS wants religious law enacted in Iraq and Syria, so those two beliefs by different people/organisations is very contradictory as well.
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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The only role for the failed Coalition of the Willing, including its vocal fans such as Tony Abbott, is to personally go back and carry the stretchers and treat the infirmed as penance for a callous, racist and opportunistic gross negligence.
If you supported that despicable war and played games with other people's lives, be man enough to take responsibility and rectify it by alleviating the present suffering, rather than doubling down on your chest beating, imperialist, good-and-evil-splitting interference. The greatest bastardry of all would be to repeat the same mistake just to save public face - all the while refusing to take responsibility for the very refugees your cowboy negligence created in the first place.
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Jezza wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | Are we starting to see now why Hussein was such a feared evil bastard?
He had to remain the king of the jungle otherwise a pack of opportunistic hyenas would have eaten him alive. |
In some aspects I do see what you're saying Swoop but it seems like these guys also admired Saddam as they executed the judge who sentenced Saddam to death back in 2006. It's a fair conclusion that Saddam's leadership of intimidation and fear is what kept these people in check.
Thing is though Saddam was a secularist (he believed in the separation of church and state) whereas ISIS wants religious law enacted in Iraq and Syria, so those two beliefs by different people/organisations is very contradictory as well. |
Hussein was a Sunni Muslim just like the members of ISIS.
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Jezza
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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | Are we starting to see now why Hussein was such a feared evil bastard?
He had to remain the king of the jungle otherwise a pack of opportunistic hyenas would have eaten him alive. |
In some aspects I do see what you're saying Swoop but it seems like these guys also admired Saddam as they executed the judge who sentenced Saddam to death back in 2006. It's a fair conclusion that Saddam's leadership of intimidation and fear is what kept these people in check.
Thing is though Saddam was a secularist (he believed in the separation of church and state) whereas ISIS wants religious law enacted in Iraq and Syria, so those two beliefs by different people/organisations is very contradictory as well. |
Hussein was a Sunni Muslim just like the members of ISIS. |
Indeed that Saddam was a Sunni Muslim but the difference is that Saddam was a secularist in Iraq. ISIS want state-enforced religious law across Iraq and Syria.
One way or another both are evil as one another even if they're slightly different in the way they go about things in terms of law and order in Iraq.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | Well after seeing the footage of the nearly naked guys being marched to their death - that's murder straight up, not a 'necessity' of war- it looks like a date with destiny.
That's just disgusting, bragging about mass killings |
Yep it's disgusting. These bastards only "care" about your life if you're of the same faith. And then, your life is just cheap as opposed to worthless.
The purpose of circulating the video is to spread fear among the west at to garner support from those inclined the same way. It's not going to end well.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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It's a shot of reality just mind boggling to me, do they have no sensitivity? Cutting the head off children, so brave
I just don't get it
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Jezza wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | Are we starting to see now why Hussein was such a feared evil bastard?
He had to remain the king of the jungle otherwise a pack of opportunistic hyenas would have eaten him alive. |
In some aspects I do see what you're saying Swoop but it seems like these guys also admired Saddam as they executed the judge who sentenced Saddam to death back in 2006. It's a fair conclusion that Saddam's leadership of intimidation and fear is what kept these people in check.
Thing is though Saddam was a secularist (he believed in the separation of church and state) whereas ISIS wants religious law enacted in Iraq and Syria, so those two beliefs by different people/organisations is very contradictory as well. |
Hussein was a Sunni Muslim just like the members of ISIS. |
Indeed that Saddam was a Sunni Muslim but the difference is that Saddam was a secularist in Iraq. ISIS want state-enforced religious law across Iraq and Syria.
One way or another both are evil as one another even if they're slightly different in the way they go about things in terms of law and order in Iraq. |
I wish I hadn't opened that link.
This is not necessarily so different from the work of Saddam's death squads, played out over many years. Saddam's crew didn't actually have the means or motives to post the pornography of death that the internet now makes possible, but their torture chambers and nerve-gas villages were also designed to sow terror. ISIS seems to be the hell-child of a region that has been brutalised by dictatorships and political violence for a long time. It does not, however, seem a virus from Iraq, but rather one spawned largely by the Syria crisis. The implosion in Syria woudl probably have caused Iraq's sectarian tensions to explode similarly, though Saddam's military woudl presumably have been more effective in fighting it than Al-Maliki's has been.
In any event, we need to stand back, work out how we can best neutralise the virus, and not rush into thinking we can make it better even though we find it boundlessly disgusting.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | Are we starting to see now why Hussein was such a feared evil bastard?
He had to remain the king of the jungle otherwise a pack of opportunistic hyenas would have eaten him alive. |
In some aspects I do see what you're saying Swoop but it seems like these guys also admired Saddam as they executed the judge who sentenced Saddam to death back in 2006. It's a fair conclusion that Saddam's leadership of intimidation and fear is what kept these people in check.
Thing is though Saddam was a secularist (he believed in the separation of church and state) whereas ISIS wants religious law enacted in Iraq and Syria, so those two beliefs by different people/organisations is very contradictory as well. |
Hussein was a Sunni Muslim just like the members of ISIS. |
Indeed that Saddam was a Sunni Muslim but the difference is that Saddam was a secularist in Iraq. ISIS want state-enforced religious law across Iraq and Syria.
One way or another both are evil as one another even if they're slightly different in the way they go about things in terms of law and order in Iraq. |
I wish I hadn't opened that link.
This is not necessarily so different from the work of Saddam's death squads, played out over many years. Saddam's crew didn't actually have the means or motives to post the pornography of death that the internet now makes possible, but their torture chambers and nerve-gas villages were also designed to sow terror. ISIS seems to be the hell-child of a region that has been brutalised by dictatorships and political violence for a long time. It does not, however, seem a virus from Iraq, but rather one spawned largely by the Syria crisis. The implosion in Syria woudl probably have caused Iraq's sectarian tensions to explode similarly, though Saddam's military woudl presumably have been more effective in fighting it than Al-Maliki's has been.
In any event, we need to stand back, work out how we can best neutralise the virus, and not rush into thinking we can make it better even though we find it boundlessly disgusting. |
I agree with your points. I actually feel sick seeing those pictures especially of the young Christian girl! It's pure evil.
We need to be rational in how to counter the threat that ISIS is posing in the Middle East rather than going in all guns blazing and thinking about the consequences later on like the US has so often in the past.
I also agree that with the internet and social media these days being so frequently used, that ISIS is using these tools to their advantage to spread fear and hate amongst the world. They need to be stopped for the sake of protecting and preserving the values that we uphold in the west, but also for the sake of innocent civilians in Iraq and Syria who are on the receiving end of their brutality. I never thought Iraq would be so much worse today than it was under Saddam's regime as I always had this idea in my head that things would improve for them and their citizens after Saddam's regime ended in 2003 and he was executed for crimes against humanity in 2006. Sadly this hasn't been the case whatsoever.
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sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
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Why are ISIS evil?
Barbaric and cruel I get, but we are deeming them evil.
Why? Because they kill in a manner we find offensive - deliberate decapitation is abhorrent I agree, but is it any worse than dropping bombs on peoples houses that also blow civilians into pieces?
If every child with body parts blown off by bombings was photographed and posted on the internet etc, would you deem the bombers evil?
I find all killing in wars reprehensible. But I see how people continue to do it. You invade, kill and maim but you justify the deaths your side brings.
When the other side do it, you label their killing as evil.
So now we are justified in bombing and killing them.
ISIS have been labelled evil as they use the Internet & media to broadcast their terrible acts. I agree what they do is terrible.
The U.S. used the media to purport to the world that Ira
q had WMD's. They lied to the entire planet and then invaded and bombed the place upon a lie. Is that evil?
Spare me! This nonsense has been going on for millennia.
We good (our mass killing perfectly justifiable. Little girls we kill are unfortunate collateral damage.
Them bad, (their killing is pure evil. The little girls they kill are just acts of
bastadry.
Just insert your countries of choice.
Last edited by sixpoints on Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Very well said, sixpoints. It's not about moral equivalence per se, as much as realising that the world cannot be divided into black and white. We probably should do away with fantastical terms like evil, even when discussing atrocities like these.
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