Welfare
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| Should all citizens be granted a minimum standard of living? |
| Yes, unconditionally. |
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43% |
[ 13 ] |
| Only if they are pulling their weight or are physically/mentally incapable of doing so. |
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53% |
[ 16 ] |
| No. We are not entitled to anything from our government. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other (please specify in post). |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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Message |
Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| David wrote: | | Actually, I'd support a form of means testing so long as people were not forced into selling their house. One solution I thought of is that pensioners could be given the option of either having the house included as an asset or handing the property rights over to the government—that is, they could live there as long as they like and draw the full pension, but once they died it would be used for social housing (or the government could claim the pension amount back from any sale or inheritance). Alternatively, I heard a guy from the Australia Institute suggest that they could draw their pension as a reverse mortgage, or something. Anyway, it seems irrelevant as both parties have declared it off the table. |
Can someone explain to me why people who have worked and paid off their home should be penalised whilst those that have chosen to not work or have spent their money on whatever else rather than buy their own home should be exempt and entitled to a pension no strings attached???
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.†|
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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I agree, Morrigu. As I mentioned earlier, the problem isn't the pension, it's double-dipping.
Not so many years ago, everyone was entitled to the pension at 65. It wasn't much, but you could count on it. Yep, some were wealthy and didn't need it, yep, some might not have contributed much over their working lives and you might say they didn't deserve it, but it was simple, pretty fair all things considered, and affordable.
Then we started this insane superannuation system. (It started out sensibly enough, but various governments have made stupid modifications and now it's badly broken. (Howard and Costello were by far the worst, but by no means the only wreckers.)
The idea of universal super was that (a) we would all have more to live on, and (b) it would save the government money.
The reality is that (a) only some of us have more, lots of people have the same or less, and (b) it costs a huge amount of money, far, far more than it saves in unpaid pensions.
With pensions, everyone got the same. If you wanted more than that, it was up to you to work and save.
With the super system, nearly all of the money goes to rich people who use it as a massive tax dodge. Ordinary people on ordinary incomes - shop assistants, nurses, police, and so on - get only a very small amount of it, and people on low incomes (part-time workers, for example) get a negative amount - yes, they pay more tax if they have super than if they don't.
We are now spending more money funding super than we spend on the pension - and 80% of the money goes to the richest 20% of the population. It is grossly unfair.
The argument for stricter means-testing of pensions ignores the real problem. I suspect that the reason we are even talking about it at all is that the small minority of people who get nearly all the benefit of it are dead-set keen to throw up a distraction so that no-one thinks about the real problem.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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Hows this while we are talking about how dumb this all is. At a staff meeting yesterday the head honcho who seemed to have to remind certain staff members that the residents at the facility pay their wages and that also some have also paid half a million to be in this facility!
Half a million just to be in one of gods waiting rooms, although at times you'd struggle to find any reference to god! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 1061 wrote: | Hows this while we are talking about how dumb this all is. At a staff meeting yesterday the head honcho who seemed to have to remind certain staff members that the residents at the facility pay their wages and that also some have also paid half a million to be in this facility!
Half a million just to be in one of gods waiting rooms, although at times you'd struggle to find any reference to god! |
Funny you should call it that. Gods Waiting Room. That's exactly what I called it, word for word, when I was in a meeting with the nursing home manager, when I was fighting for better conditions for my mum.
My mum had little money, so she didn't have to pay, but a fair bit of her pension went to the centre every week for her, I'm, I was going to write care, but I just can't. That's not a personal slight in anyway, just my mothers experience. I don't know how nursing home staff do it. I couldn't. Dealing with often grumpy, emotional, upset, sick and angry patients or residents, and dealing with hierarchy that either doesn't care, can't care, or lack initiative, I'd go nuts. And on a pittance. Even the qualified nursing staff. A friend recently quit the home mum was at, and now does mobile nursing, she is so much happier.
The pension problem is hard to negotiate. It still comes down to the difference between hard work/lazy, and savers/spenders. And then you can't forget those who selflessly take a lower wage to do jobs that do extroidanary good in the community.
Until the full super instead of full pension kicks in, those such as Morrigu, deserve a piece of the pie they have contributed to all their working life.
I can't see a solution to the whole welfare thing, until human nature changes. And I can't see that happening any time soon. Someone will always drag it down.
I must ask my hubbies relos who work at centre link, if they have ever been tempted to say " you really want a job? How about a shave, a bath, a hairbrush, and make an effort not to look so disinterested?" And "no you can't have an advance because your out of smokes. "
Maybe when that happens, those that have a genuine need will get enough help.
I've told my kids if I end up like mum, and can't afford a better nursing home than the one she was in, tie me to my wheelchair and push my off the end of Altona pier.
Sad that the comparison between prisons and nursing homes is so far apart.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| How well do you know this friend. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | Hows this while we are talking about how dumb this all is. At a staff meeting yesterday the head honcho who seemed to have to remind certain staff members that the residents at the facility pay their wages and that also some have also paid half a million to be in this facility!
Half a million just to be in one of gods waiting rooms, although at times you'd struggle to find any reference to god! |
Funny you should call it that. Gods Waiting Room. That's exactly what I called it, word for word, when I was in a meeting with the nursing home manager, when I was fighting for better conditions for my mum.
My mum had little money, so she didn't have to pay, but a fair bit of her pension went to the centre every week for her, I'm, I was going to write care, but I just can't. That's not a personal slight in anyway, just my mothers experience. I don't know how nursing home staff do it. I couldn't. Dealing with often grumpy, emotional, upset, sick and angry patients or residents, and dealing with hierarchy that either doesn't care, can't care, or lack initiative, I'd go nuts. And on a pittance. Even the qualified nursing staff. A friend recently quit the home mum was at, and now does mobile nursing, she is so much happier. wasn't a north/eastern suburban church ran place was it?
The pension problem is hard to negotiate. It still comes down to the difference between hard work/lazy, and savers/spenders. And then you can't forget those who selflessly take a lower wage to do jobs that do extroidanary good in the community.
Until the full super instead of full pension kicks in, those such as Morrigu, deserve a piece of the pie they have contributed to all their working life.
I can't see a solution to the whole welfare thing, until human nature changes. And I can't see that happening any time soon. Someone will always drag it down.
I must ask my hubbies relos who work at centre link, if they have ever been tempted to say " you really want a job? How about a shave, a bath, a hairbrush, and make an effort not to look so disinterested?" And "no you can't have an advance because your out of smokes. "
Maybe when that happens, those that have a genuine need will get enough help.
I've told my kids if I end up like mum, and can't afford a better nursing home than the one she was in, tie me to my wheelchair and push my off the end of Altona pier.
Sad that the comparison between prisons and nursing homes is so far apart. |
So many of the residents have mentioned they would rather have made the choice to end their life when they were able than be where they are.
I don't take it personally I just do the best I can, piss the other workers off by being the only aussie in the zoo at times so I have the residents empathy the others cannot have so they get jealous.
We are about to have the shit hit the fan, a family member has put in a complaint to aged care services as they moved their loved one to another home. 2 hour wait for a call bell to be answered. She actually told me about it before she put the complaint in because again I seem to be the only Aussie with empathy in the zoo.
My mothers in a good place now, but I had my time when I needed to watch the care they provided. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 1061 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | Hows this while we are talking about how dumb this all is. At a staff meeting yesterday the head honcho who seemed to have to remind certain staff members that the residents at the facility pay their wages and that also some have also paid half a million to be in this facility!
Half a million just to be in one of gods waiting rooms, although at times you'd struggle to find any reference to god! |
Funny you should call it that. Gods Waiting Room. That's exactly what I called it, word for word, when I was in a meeting with the nursing home manager, when I was fighting for better conditions for my mum.
My mum had little money, so she didn't have to pay, but a fair bit of her pension went to the centre every week for her, I'm, I was going to write care, but I just can't. That's not a personal slight in anyway, just my mothers experience. I don't know how nursing home staff do it. I couldn't. Dealing with often grumpy, emotional, upset, sick and angry patients or residents, and dealing with hierarchy that either doesn't care, can't care, or lack initiative, I'd go nuts. And on a pittance. Even the qualified nursing staff. A friend recently quit the home mum was at, and now does mobile nursing, she is so much happier. wasn't a north/eastern suburban church ran place was it?
The pension problem is hard to negotiate. It still comes down to the difference between hard work/lazy, and savers/spenders. And then you can't forget those who selflessly take a lower wage to do jobs that do extroidanary good in the community.
Until the full super instead of full pension kicks in, those such as Morrigu, deserve a piece of the pie they have contributed to all their working life.
I can't see a solution to the whole welfare thing, until human nature changes. And I can't see that happening any time soon. Someone will always drag it down.
I must ask my hubbies relos who work at centre link, if they have ever been tempted to say " you really want a job? How about a shave, a bath, a hairbrush, and make an effort not to look so disinterested?" And "no you can't have an advance because your out of smokes. "
Maybe when that happens, those that have a genuine need will get enough help.
I've told my kids if I end up like mum, and can't afford a better nursing home than the one she was in, tie me to my wheelchair and push my off the end of Altona pier.
Sad that the comparison between prisons and nursing homes is so far apart. |
So many of the residents have mentioned they would rather have made the choice to end their life when they were able than be where they are.
I don't take it personally I just do the best I can, piss the other workers off by being the only aussie in the zoo at times so I have the residents empathy the others cannot have so they get jealous.
We are about to have the shit hit the fan, a family member has put in a complaint to aged care services as they moved their loved one to another home. 2 hour wait for a call bell to be answered. She actually told me about it before she put the complaint in because again I seem to be the only Aussie with empathy in the zoo.
My mothers in a good place now, but I had my time when I needed to watch the care they provided. |
the nurse was at ST George in Altona meadows.
Thankyou for taking my post the way I meant it. there certainly were some good, caring staff when my mothers was there, and now that you mention it, they were the aussies!! there was one really nice philipino I think she was. like I said, I know they work under awful conditions. so much needs to be done. money needs to be spent, more staff, better working conditions, more ans better lifting equipment. dropped in a while back to visit a friends mum, the food had improved (that day anyway) out of sight.
one night my mum was on the floor with a broken shoulder for a couple of hours. wedged between the door and the wall. and she had an alarm pad. so many more horror stories I wont go into.....
im glad your mum is in a good place, and im glad she has you to look out for her.
cheers
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What specifically did she tell you? |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | Hows this while we are talking about how dumb this all is. At a staff meeting yesterday the head honcho who seemed to have to remind certain staff members that the residents at the facility pay their wages and that also some have also paid half a million to be in this facility!
Half a million just to be in one of gods waiting rooms, although at times you'd struggle to find any reference to god! |
Funny you should call it that. Gods Waiting Room. That's exactly what I called it, word for word, when I was in a meeting with the nursing home manager, when I was fighting for better conditions for my mum.
My mum had little money, so she didn't have to pay, but a fair bit of her pension went to the centre every week for her, I'm, I was going to write care, but I just can't. That's not a personal slight in anyway, just my mothers experience. I don't know how nursing home staff do it. I couldn't. Dealing with often grumpy, emotional, upset, sick and angry patients or residents, and dealing with hierarchy that either doesn't care, can't care, or lack initiative, I'd go nuts. And on a pittance. Even the qualified nursing staff. A friend recently quit the home mum was at, and now does mobile nursing, she is so much happier. wasn't a north/eastern suburban church ran place was it?
The pension problem is hard to negotiate. It still comes down to the difference between hard work/lazy, and savers/spenders. And then you can't forget those who selflessly take a lower wage to do jobs that do extroidanary good in the community.
Until the full super instead of full pension kicks in, those such as Morrigu, deserve a piece of the pie they have contributed to all their working life.
I can't see a solution to the whole welfare thing, until human nature changes. And I can't see that happening any time soon. Someone will always drag it down.
I must ask my hubbies relos who work at centre link, if they have ever been tempted to say " you really want a job? How about a shave, a bath, a hairbrush, and make an effort not to look so disinterested?" And "no you can't have an advance because your out of smokes. "
Maybe when that happens, those that have a genuine need will get enough help.
I've told my kids if I end up like mum, and can't afford a better nursing home than the one she was in, tie me to my wheelchair and push my off the end of Altona pier.
Sad that the comparison between prisons and nursing homes is so far apart. |
So many of the residents have mentioned they would rather have made the choice to end their life when they were able than be where they are.
I don't take it personally I just do the best I can, piss the other workers off by being the only aussie in the zoo at times so I have the residents empathy the others cannot have so they get jealous.
We are about to have the shit hit the fan, a family member has put in a complaint to aged care services as they moved their loved one to another home. 2 hour wait for a call bell to be answered. She actually told me about it before she put the complaint in because again I seem to be the only Aussie with empathy in the zoo.
My mothers in a good place now, but I had my time when I needed to watch the care they provided. |
the nurse was at ST George in Altona meadows.
Thankyou for taking my post the way I meant it. there certainly were some good, caring staff when my mothers was there, and now that you mention it, they were the aussies!! there was one really nice philipino I think she was. like I said, I know they work under awful conditions. so much needs to be done. money needs to be spent, more staff, better working conditions, more ans better lifting equipment. dropped in a while back to visit a friends mum, the food had improved (that day anyway) out of sight.
one night my mum was on the floor with a broken shoulder for a couple of hours. wedged between the door and the wall. and she had an alarm pad. so many more horror stories I wont go into.....
im glad your mum is in a good place, and im glad she has you to look out for her.
cheers |
One night one of our pads wasn't working and we didn't know because no staff had reported it. A new resident fell a largish fella who needed a hoist to get him up, his family found him and was pressing the alarm bell but no one replied. These bells response times are all able to be computer monitored so those staff who just ignore or put the pagers onto silent are screwing themselves. Unfortunately the bosses do not think my suggestion of a sign in/out system for the pagers is worth bothering with so they then don't have to pinpoint the actual problem employee or even shock horror lift care standards.
We are in the middle of redevelopments and some residents who thought 5 years ago they'd moved into a lodge(independent living with minimal support) for life are being kicked out. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 1061 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | Hows this while we are talking about how dumb this all is. At a staff meeting yesterday the head honcho who seemed to have to remind certain staff members that the residents at the facility pay their wages and that also some have also paid half a million to be in this facility!
Half a million just to be in one of gods waiting rooms, although at times you'd struggle to find any reference to god! |
Funny you should call it that. Gods Waiting Room. That's exactly what I called it, word for word, when I was in a meeting with the nursing home manager, when I was fighting for better conditions for my mum.
My mum had little money, so she didn't have to pay, but a fair bit of her pension went to the centre every week for her, I'm, I was going to write care, but I just can't. That's not a personal slight in anyway, just my mothers experience. I don't know how nursing home staff do it. I couldn't. Dealing with often grumpy, emotional, upset, sick and angry patients or residents, and dealing with hierarchy that either doesn't care, can't care, or lack initiative, I'd go nuts. And on a pittance. Even the qualified nursing staff. A friend recently quit the home mum was at, and now does mobile nursing, she is so much happier. wasn't a north/eastern suburban church ran place was it?
The pension problem is hard to negotiate. It still comes down to the difference between hard work/lazy, and savers/spenders. And then you can't forget those who selflessly take a lower wage to do jobs that do extroidanary good in the community.
Until the full super instead of full pension kicks in, those such as Morrigu, deserve a piece of the pie they have contributed to all their working life.
I can't see a solution to the whole welfare thing, until human nature changes. And I can't see that happening any time soon. Someone will always drag it down.
I must ask my hubbies relos who work at centre link, if they have ever been tempted to say " you really want a job? How about a shave, a bath, a hairbrush, and make an effort not to look so disinterested?" And "no you can't have an advance because your out of smokes. "
Maybe when that happens, those that have a genuine need will get enough help.
I've told my kids if I end up like mum, and can't afford a better nursing home than the one she was in, tie me to my wheelchair and push my off the end of Altona pier.
Sad that the comparison between prisons and nursing homes is so far apart. |
So many of the residents have mentioned they would rather have made the choice to end their life when they were able than be where they are.
I don't take it personally I just do the best I can, piss the other workers off by being the only aussie in the zoo at times so I have the residents empathy the others cannot have so they get jealous.
We are about to have the shit hit the fan, a family member has put in a complaint to aged care services as they moved their loved one to another home. 2 hour wait for a call bell to be answered. She actually told me about it before she put the complaint in because again I seem to be the only Aussie with empathy in the zoo.
My mothers in a good place now, but I had my time when I needed to watch the care they provided. |
the nurse was at ST George in Altona meadows.
Thankyou for taking my post the way I meant it. there certainly were some good, caring staff when my mothers was there, and now that you mention it, they were the aussies!! there was one really nice philipino I think she was. like I said, I know they work under awful conditions. so much needs to be done. money needs to be spent, more staff, better working conditions, more ans better lifting equipment. dropped in a while back to visit a friends mum, the food had improved (that day anyway) out of sight.
one night my mum was on the floor with a broken shoulder for a couple of hours. wedged between the door and the wall. and she had an alarm pad. so many more horror stories I wont go into.....
im glad your mum is in a good place, and im glad she has you to look out for her.
cheers |
One night one of our pads wasn't working and we didn't know because no staff had reported it. A new resident fell a largish fella who needed a hoist to get him up, his family found him and was pressing the alarm bell but no one replied. These bells response times are all able to be computer monitored so those staff who just ignore or put the pagers onto silent are screwing themselves. Unfortunately the bosses do not think my suggestion of a sign in/out system for the pagers is worth bothering with so they then don't have to pinpoint the actual problem employee or even shock horror lift care standards.
We are in the middle of redevelopments and some residents who thought 5 years ago they'd moved into a lodge(independent living with minimal support) for life are being kicked out. |
Oh god that's awful. They have opened a section in st George like that now, used to be for disabled youth I believe. Would have been great for mum who much preferred to be left alone.
As for your suggestion, so easy hey! Do you have it in writing? If so get it printed, ready for the review. Or do they have a suggestion line at head office? I know st George was run by a central agency, I ended up going to them. In fact I threatened to go to a current affair! It's how I got the situation changed in the end. Just drop a friendly suggestion to head office.
Seriously, they need people like you willing to go the extra mile, desperately. I can't believe the way the elderly are treated. It's just so wrong. They shouldn't have to worry about turning on the heater, or eating their pets food. So many in the nursing home never got visitors, I wonder how many went through my mums experiences and never had anyone to stand up for them. I still have not got over the fight I went through to get my mum basic care. To get her put in hospital when her hand was almost at gangrenous level. When she was left in just her pants, no top, in the chair in her room, unable to dress herself or get into bed. I found her asleep in her chair. They forgot her over an hour before. She was cold, upset, cried herself to sleep, she'd had a mastectomy,id never seen the scar, she was devastated.. Or the time they forced her shoe onto her foot, when yesterday's sock was still scrunched in the end. They said she'd been in a foul mood all day when I went to visit. First thing she said to me was "my foot hurts". Oh yes I did my banana that day. You could see the bone pushing on the skin hours later. And now I cry for her again.
Every week there was something. So sad.
Cheers mate, God bless you. Xx
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Makes me wonder if it wouldn't be better when I get too old to look after myself to leave a nice goodbye note and wander off into the wilderness.
I've never had to deal with nursing homes, my great grandmother was living at home when she had a stroke (think she was playing pokies at the time) and my grandmother is still going on Rhine cruise trips in Germany deep into her 70s and is living in her own unit. My grandfather was also still living at home when his organs decided to give out on him.
The way a society treats their elderly speaks volumes about the values, or lack of values it holds. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| think positive wrote: | | Seriously, they need people like you willing to go the extra mile, desperately. |
The basic course for the certificate is so easy any dill can pass it(I did) and many get "help" to pass. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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I would love to be as rich as this Prick. That we can just live us off it.
He needs a wake up call
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