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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Quote: | As Joe Hockey prepares to deliver his first federal budget in May, the Treasurer has foreshadowed cuts to government spending to rein in Australia's debt.
As new governments often do, he's laying the blame squarely at the feet of his predecessors.
"Of the 17 top surveyed IMF countries, Labor left us with the fastest growth in spending of anyone in the world... and they left us with the third highest growth in debt of anyone in the top 17," Mr Hockey told RN Breakfast on March 6.
"So, the fact of the matter is they've left a whole lot of landmines in the budget. We need to carefully remove those landmines and put us back on a path that gets us away from $123 billion of deficit, and starts to pay down the logjam of $667 billion of debt."
ABC Fact Check investigates Mr Hockey's claims about Australia's level of spending and debt. |
ABC fact check found Hockey to be correct.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-13/joe-hockey-correct-on-australia-debt-and-spending/5310736
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Quote: | As Joe Hockey prepares to deliver his first federal budget in May, the Treasurer has foreshadowed cuts to government spending to rein in Australia's debt.
As new governments often do, he's laying the blame squarely at the feet of his predecessors.
"Of the 17 top surveyed IMF countries, Labor left us with the fastest growth in spending of anyone in the world... and they left us with the third highest growth in debt of anyone in the top 17," Mr Hockey told RN Breakfast on March 6.
"So, the fact of the matter is they've left a whole lot of landmines in the budget. We need to carefully remove those landmines and put us back on a path that gets us away from $123 billion of deficit, and starts to pay down the logjam of $667 billion of debt."
ABC Fact Check investigates Mr Hockey's claims about Australia's level of spending and debt. |
ABC fact check found Hockey to be correct.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-13/joe-hockey-correct-on-australia-debt-and-spending/5310736 |
Deceitful, decontextual, economically ignorant lies from the government, as usual. Anyone with the knowledge required to do a meaningful, sophisticated "fact check" can spot the fraud a mile away.
What Dumbo Hockey didn't say was that debt is still very minor relative to the other side of the economic ledger, i.e., Australia's income, growth and productivity, and thus ability to carry that debt. Moreover, he also didn't say that if the debt gets too high, the now bloated currency will take care of the bulk of it by being marked down by international investors, in turn aiding other productive parts of the economy.
And then, of course, comes the laughable killer punch from the article you linked to:
Weasles Abbott and Hockey pretend the opposite is true
Furthermore, he never mentioned that you can't have a quality society and dynamic future economy without spending. So, not only is that debt easily bearable by the economy, it is funding socio-economic development.
In other words, they're lying so far through their teeth it's not funny. It's a shameful, manipulative disgrace.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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OK, so obviously I can't trust the ABC.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | | OK, so obviously I can't trust the ABC. |
Think about it for yourself, for goodness' sake. One bad article following Hockey's deceitful premises (all the while denying them if you think it through, BTW) does not the ABC make.
Hockey's claims as a whole, oft-repeated set are grossly deceitful.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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In a word, Stui, no. The ABC has been progressively nobbled by a succession of hard-right Liberals appointed to lead it, and ABC news and current affairs routinely slant towards the Liberal Party. Not always, not every time, but most of the time. When Gillard was PM, they featured Abbott and his goons, who got two-thirds of the air-time and were allowed to frame the debate. Now that Abbott is in power, they give Abbott and his motley crew more than two-thirds of the airtime, and still allow tem to frame the debate. The best thing to be said for the ABC current affairs coverage is that it's a bit less worse than Murdoch's. Faint praise indeed.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| pietillidie wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | OK, so obviously I can't trust the ABC. |
Think about it for yourself, for goodness' sake. One bad article following Hockey's deceitful premises (all the while denying them if you think it through, BTW) does not the ABC make.
Hockey's claims as a whole, oft-repeated set are grossly deceitful. |
You like Hockey were selective with your details & information. The ABC points this out as does the Fact Check article you've used.
You like Hockey failed to mention the context.
The context that was contained in the link you provided: Australia has the second lowest debt to GDP ratio in the developed world
As you well know text without context is meaningless.
(just a minor detail Stui - shit stirrer)  
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Me? A Shit Stirrer?
Why Jim, I resemble that remark. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | Me? A Shit Stirrer?
Why Jim, I resemble that remark. |
I represent that remark too
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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From the Fact Check link:
| Quote: | In its generally upbeat assessment of Australia's economic position, the IMF says "gross debt is expected to peak at around 32 percent of GDP in 2015 and is among the lowest in advanced nations".
Elsewhere, in the fund's recommendations for Australia's fiscal policy, it says "Australia's modest public debt gives the authorities scope to delay their planned return to surpluses in the event of a sharp deterioration in the economic outlook". |
So why did Hockey and his party go to the election stating that national debt was an urgent problem and that we virtually need austerity measures now?
Jarryd Blair could have conceivably had a faster relative growth rate from ages 19-20 than Jarrod Witts, but that doesn't make him a ruckman. Relative growth is still much less important than medium-term projections and total debt per GDP. The fact remains that there is no debt crisis and the Coalition deliberately (and successfully) deceived the Australian public by claiming there was.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Why compare us to other basketcases like socialist Europe and warmongering USA? Here's why we're paying down our debt.
I don't care if some country on the verge of collapse has huge debts, it doesn't mean we join them. Is there a 'crisis'? No. But who can you get the 'public' to agree to reign in spending any other way? People overwhelmingly vote for self rather than national interest. The people are happy to receive whatever they can from the public purse and uninterested in how it gets paid (see Greece/France).
I'd rather a deceit for the purposes of good economic management than deceit that it's all fine so here you all go, have some money on us (Paid maternity leave). |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^You're talking absolute scaremongering, economically fictitious rubbish.
Now explain that debt carriage increase relative to the debt market and mechanisms of devaluation such as the floating currency. The capacity to carry debt has well exceeded the growth in debt, and your graph says nothing at all whatsoever about that.
The capacity to carry debt. Not the debt-to-GDP ratio, the capacity to carry (debt vis-a-vis what the debt market will bear).
Jesus doesn't carry debt, lenders who are responsible for their own investments carry debt. Deal with their willingness and capacity to carry debt, not some fictitious Jesus economics where the Lord himself strikes countries down at a certain debt level. Indeed, we all know we live in a debt economy and without debt the world economy itself would collapse, so stop spreading lies that countries operate much the same way as old Ms. Smith's savings account.
Debt levels are for dummies. Debt-to-GDP ratios are for beginners. The capacity to carry debt gets you closer to something rational and honest.
The Reinhart-Rogoff thesis, which put dangerous debt carriage at 90% of GDP, has now been hilariously and laughably debunked in the most farcical and embarrassing manner.
Explain what debt levels mean, don't just post stuff you can't explain from nuclear physics. (Especially in 3 mile wide images )
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Guess the ABC are Liberal Lovers
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I am Da Man |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| pietillidie wrote: | ^[Wokko] You're talking absolute scaremongering, economically fictitious rubbish.
Now explain that debt carriage increase relative to the debt market and mechanisms of devaluation such as the floating currency. The capacity to carry debt has well exceeded the growth in debt, and your graph says nothing at all whatsoever about that.
The capacity to carry debt. Not the debt-to-GDP ratio, the capacity to carry (debt vis-a-vis what the debt market will bear).
Jesus doesn't carry debt, lenders who are responsible for their own investments carry debt. Deal with their willingness and capacity to carry debt, not some fictitious Jesus economics where the Lord himself strikes countries down at a certain debt level. Indeed, we all know we live in a debt economy and without debt the world economy itself would collapse, so stop spreading lies that countries operate much the same way as old Ms. Smith's savings account.
Debt levels are for dummies. Debt-to-GDP ratios are for beginners. The capacity to carry debt gets you closer to something rational and honest.
The Reinhart-Rogoff thesis, which put dangerous debt carriage at 90% of GDP, has now been hilariously and laughably debunked in the most farcical and embarrassing manner.
Explain what debt levels mean, don't just post stuff you can't explain from nuclear physics. (Especially in 3 mile wide images ) |
Oh, and Wokko, please correct your outright error/lie/brainfade/otherwordly religious doctrine by listing the countries on that graph (i.e., all of them), and explain why you think they're "basketcases", and no one else on the planet does.
Who would you like Australia compared to - the imaginary New Earth of the Book of Zechariah? There are plenty of solid economies on that chart.
Oh, and please explain to people that most of the "basketcase" Euro economies you have in mind were only basketcases because their currency was trapped in the Euro and couldn't devalue against neighbour Germany, and everyone who knows anything about economics know this is fact.
It's astonishing the tripe otherwise sane people spread where their religious convictions are concerned.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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