Mini-history wars

[Tannin]

[3.14159]

[quote="Wokko"]
The T-34 was deployed in 1940 as was the KV-1. Many of the Russian modern monoplanes like the Mig 1 & 3, Lagg 1 & 3 and Yak 1 were all in service in 1940.

Not going to write an essay with footnotes on the issue of planned Soviet aggression, but here's a good start. As with any historical debate there are claims, counter claims, arguments about veracity of sources, allies, enemies etc. In fact the study of history is almost as brutal and Macchiavellian as history itself

[quote]

The T 34 was deployed in 40 but the production numbers deployments were very small. When war broke out plants were moved to the Urals to escape German ground advances and air attacks.
They produced an ungraded tank the T 34M that won it's laurels at Kurst (and every other battle it fought in).
Same with the Lags, Migs and Yaks.
All still undergoing production design and development in 41 and VERY FEW were available for year of the war.
The main fighter defending the Russians was the Polikarpov I-153, a biplane developed from the Ratta and the Stormovic ground attack aircraft which was used and an interceptor because the Russians had nothing better to defend themselves with. * see attached image.
As I said, numbers aren't all ways an indicator of strength.

Add to that Russia's best officers were killed off in the purges and the USSR couldn't possibly be ready to do any serious invading until at least 1947.
This planned Soviet aggression you talk about is a myth also.
Poland and Eastern Europe were the traditional attack routes taken to Russia.
Russia had seen Poland used as a autobahn/run-way yet again and there was no way they were going to leave that rout open after suffering millions dead and a large Army camped at start line and rattling it's sabres at them.

I cant think of many places the Ruskies have invaded, Afganistan, Czechoslvakia (briefly), err arr I know there are others but the names Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Egypt, Granada, Borneo, Iraq, Cuba (and many more) and many more spring readily to mind as examples of Counties with an "Expansionist Invasive Foreign policy.

Retreat to 39 boarders?
There was no way they were going to retreat to 1939 boarders while a large Allied force occupied West Europe.
Was is the 39 boarder to them anyway? As I've pointed out, Poland was doing land snatches back then too so talk of it as some kind of golden age it's kind of totally irrelevant.
As I've pointed out Europe was in a state of flux and for them the war didn't start until 41.

The Allies repaired their conquered enemies economies?
Mate, German Japan (and to an extent Italy) were economic powerhouses before the war. They Had the knowledge and recourses to to rebuild.
The Warsaw pact countries were economic basket cases before the war and remained so afterwards particulary when to consider the USA did just about everything it could to deny the East access to world markets.

The Soviets raped and robbed their conquered countries?
There all perjorative words and phrases.
There has been plenty of pillaging and plundering done both sides since the second world war ended.
My fear is people that like to stir up anti Russian emotions won't be satisfied till have a world war 3 and a chance to right the historical wrongs of those dark days.
Personally I'd rather we started forgetting about who did what to whom way back when and getting with tackling the issues of world politics with-out the encumbrance of history.

There is saying, People who don't learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat them... (Just a thought from an uppity Pole).

[HAL]

What happened to it?

[David]

[Tannin]

a: "Aboriginal people are rapists."

b: "The Russians invaded Germany and were barbaric."

Discuss ....

[David]

Well, let's at least get the quote right:

[3.14159]

[Tannin]

[3.14159]

[David]

[Tannin]

[David]

Well, not quite:

http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/demand-for-a-public-apology-from-timothy-lynch-for-calling-russians-barbarians-and-invaders-of-germany-in-the-newspaper-the-age

[Tannin]

Thankyou for the link. I signed the petition. So should you.

[Tannin]

[David]

It's a criticism of current Russian foreign policy via analysis of current supposed socioeconomic pressures and appeal to past incidents of crushing opponents. His central argument is that Russia is throwing its weight around the region in a bid to recapture days of former Soviet glory and inflame local nationalist sentiment (many people have said the same; I'm inclined to believe that this is indeed one of Putin's main motivations in Ukraine, as it was in Georgia). PTID's valid critique of ascribing motivations to nebulous entities aside, it's actually a fairly decent overview. The only really controversial bit is the sentence quoted in the change.org petition. I still maintain that it's controversial for the wrong reasons.