Oh how i wish!!
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sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
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| WarrenerraW wrote: | | sixpoints wrote: | Perhaps the best comparison is not the English football (soccer), but that of Germany. The German fans have organised themselves into a powerful player in German football. They have a voice that is listened to by the football authorities and they work hard on upholding what they believe to be their 'fan culture'.
They opposed what they believed to be inconvenient starting times to matches. They en masse turned up when they wanted to. Eg the ground is half full at the start, but the rest arrive at the time that suits them.
They also lobbied hard to have standing room sections re-installed. They believed that standing creates a better culture/atmosphere. So again en masse thousands would stand on their seats (many with their back to the game!) in protest. The end result, German football again has large sections of "safe standing" (unlike England). The atmosphere is better than in English games.
Fans recently agreed to make no noise at all for the first 12 minutes of league games. This is because they see themselves as the "12th man" of their team and have a beef over allocations of tickets for away fans at games. So games with 60,000 in attendance began in complete silence and then a deafening roar as all fans cheered in the 12th minute.
The fans also lobbied for a reduction in ticket prices and working with the German FA have almost halved admission prices. The results of better starting times, standing room sections being reinstalled and cheap prices has German grounds packed to the rafters and advertisers/ TV falling over themselves to get involved as it is such great theatre. So the game is booming.
If people think the; atmosphere, timings, lack of standing areas, pricing and force fed cheerleaders etc at our games is not what is wanted, then clearly the answer is to do something.
http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1243312/german-fans-begin-silent-protests?cc=3436 |
It's not as sweet and rosy as you might think mate. There's a dark side too. Away fans are sometimes subjected to strict searching methods which, in some cases, has involved strip searches in tents because they want to prevent pyrotechnics and 'weapons' being brought into the stadium. Police sometimes use heavy handed tactics on innocent fans - and they get away with it because the German FA, the media and clubs support it and endorse it.
The ultra section of the Hannover stadium was raided by police looking for pyrotechnics and they found nothing, but lied to the media and said that it was justified: they found cigarette lighters and beat people up for the hell of it.
Fans can be arrested for not getting off at the right stop i.e getting off one stop early and walking. This can land you in deep trouble with the law. As an away fan traveling by train, most times, must get off at the main station where you are ushered to the main entrance and told to wait there until it's time to leave. Meanwhile police are filming you, watching your every move.
Hannover fans protested in braunschweig 2 weeks ago in response to their club enforcing strict rules over attending the game against their biggest rival. Only certain season ticket holders were allowed to go but they had to travel on a designated bus for which they were made to give all their details, show photo id, and have their bags and backpacks searched prior to boarding. Once on the bus, they were issued their tickets. They were taken straight to the stadium and had be board the bus immediately after the game. The authorities threatened to punish any Hannover fans taking their own transport. In response to this, 600 Hannover supporters, some of whom tore up their tickets, protested in the main street of braunschweig.
So what you're saying is right but some clubs, police and the media are trying to 'kill off' this atmosphere in order to create their own sanitized watered down version, not realising that it's in fact the ultras that make the atmosphere and entertain the crowds. |
Cheers mate and I agree I did paint a rather rosy picture, but only did so to raise the point that fan based change is possible.
But your post just goes to show you that authorities will always push back, sometimes even way too far in order to keep their control.
I think my general point still stands. If you dont like kiss cam, hug cam, smile cam, Sunday twilight games, excessive costs, countdown clocks, cheerleaders etc then you can try to do something about it. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| WarrenerraW wrote: | | I'm watching it now too - very entertaining game. We could and should have that style of atmosphere but it's not easy to create and I'm not sure it suits our game, but anything is worth a try. The atmosphere created by 'ultras' at european football games is pretty amazing and great to be a part of. It's very organized and everyone in their designated sections gets involved with banner and flag waving and chanting. I for one would like to see the ponsford end turned into a sea of black and white with large banners and flags. We could start a 'Collingwood Ultras' group. A few flares and some friday night hooliganism. This could be one step towards supporters reclaiming their game. Bring it on! |
MCG and AFL would hate that to happen
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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WE only had that passion Joffa, back in the glory days of ol Vic Park. And I mean way back in the 60s-80s, when I went a lot out there. Standing near the old scoreboard the passion was amazing, the yelling, laughter, fury, jibes, banter, loud barracking, on the terraces. Of course it was in the Rush stand too, and the old one eyed stand, and the social club area. The Ryder stand got us many a free kick, such was the roar of the barrackers, screaming for a free. THOSE were the glory days, the "salad days of my youth " as George Orwell once said, and the passion was bloody marvellous.
Sadly, that era is gone now, footy is very much more sterile, the Corporates, chardonnay sets have moved in, and the Ponny has become a bit sedate, not enough characters go to the footy now, the game was once the game of the working class masses, but now its too damn expensive to take the kids at times, the prices are pretty bad for food and drink too.
Yep, a bygone era now long gone, RIP the Victoria Park Passion !!
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Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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I agree up to a point Piesnchess. However towards the end of the Vic Park days, a few absolutely bloody feral magpie members used to spoil it for all by verbally abusing Collingwood players more than the opposition or even the umpires. I know that this used to start fights among magpie fans and piss many people off. That was not magpie passion but primeval stupidity. 
Passion is great but there is a very fine line between passionate and primitive behaviour. I still stand to be convinced that some supporters know the difference, as we see this type of thing even on Nick's.........  |
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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| sixpoints wrote: | | WarrenerraW wrote: | | sixpoints wrote: | Perhaps the best comparison is not the English football (soccer), but that of Germany. The German fans have organised themselves into a powerful player in German football. They have a voice that is listened to by the football authorities and they work hard on upholding what they believe to be their 'fan culture'.
They opposed what they believed to be inconvenient starting times to matches. They en masse turned up when they wanted to. Eg the ground is half full at the start, but the rest arrive at the time that suits them.
They also lobbied hard to have standing room sections re-installed. They believed that standing creates a better culture/atmosphere. So again en masse thousands would stand on their seats (many with their back to the game!) in protest. The end result, German football again has large sections of "safe standing" (unlike England). The atmosphere is better than in English games.
Fans recently agreed to make no noise at all for the first 12 minutes of league games. This is because they see themselves as the "12th man" of their team and have a beef over allocations of tickets for away fans at games. So games with 60,000 in attendance began in complete silence and then a deafening roar as all fans cheered in the 12th minute.
The fans also lobbied for a reduction in ticket prices and working with the German FA have almost halved admission prices. The results of better starting times, standing room sections being reinstalled and cheap prices has German grounds packed to the rafters and advertisers/ TV falling over themselves to get involved as it is such great theatre. So the game is booming.
If people think the; atmosphere, timings, lack of standing areas, pricing and force fed cheerleaders etc at our games is not what is wanted, then clearly the answer is to do something.
http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1243312/german-fans-begin-silent-protests?cc=3436 |
It's not as sweet and rosy as you might think mate. There's a dark side too. Away fans are sometimes subjected to strict searching methods which, in some cases, has involved strip searches in tents because they want to prevent pyrotechnics and 'weapons' being brought into the stadium. Police sometimes use heavy handed tactics on innocent fans - and they get away with it because the German FA, the media and clubs support it and endorse it.
The ultra section of the Hannover stadium was raided by police looking for pyrotechnics and they found nothing, but lied to the media and said that it was justified: they found cigarette lighters and beat people up for the hell of it.
Fans can be arrested for not getting off at the right stop i.e getting off one stop early and walking. This can land you in deep trouble with the law. As an away fan traveling by train, most times, must get off at the main station where you are ushered to the main entrance and told to wait there until it's time to leave. Meanwhile police are filming you, watching your every move.
Hannover fans protested in braunschweig 2 weeks ago in response to their club enforcing strict rules over attending the game against their biggest rival. Only certain season ticket holders were allowed to go but they had to travel on a designated bus for which they were made to give all their details, show photo id, and have their bags and backpacks searched prior to boarding. Once on the bus, they were issued their tickets. They were taken straight to the stadium and had be board the bus immediately after the game. The authorities threatened to punish any Hannover fans taking their own transport. In response to this, 600 Hannover supporters, some of whom tore up their tickets, protested in the main street of braunschweig.
So what you're saying is right but some clubs, police and the media are trying to 'kill off' this atmosphere in order to create their own sanitized watered down version, not realising that it's in fact the ultras that make the atmosphere and entertain the crowds. |
Cheers mate and I agree I did paint a rather rosy picture, but only did so to raise the point that fan based change is possible.
But your post just goes to show you that authorities will always push back, sometimes even way too far in order to keep their control.
I think my general point still stands. If you dont like kiss cam, hug cam, smile cam, Sunday twilight games, excessive costs, countdown clocks, cheerleaders etc then you can try to do something about it. |
Spot on mate. Change is possible but only if people are willing enough to make the change. Like you, I'm over all the gimmicks like hug/ kiss/ smile cam. We could build the ponsford stand into a fortress and an (active) sea of black and white with enough people. Screw the authorities and what they think and what their interpretation of 'enjoyment' is. It's our game and we should be able to enjoy it anyway we choose. If we introduced proper chanting, flags and banners that covered the ponsford end then every other club would follow and do the same. It can be done. Lets start a 'Collingwood Ultras' group. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Lazza wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | WE only had that passion Joffa, back in the glory days of ol Vic Park. And I mean way back in the 60s-80s, when I went a lot out there. Standing near the old scoreboard the passion was amazing, the yelling, laughter, fury, jibes, banter, loud barracking, on the terraces. Of course it was in the Rush stand too, and the old one eyed stand, and the social club area. The Ryder stand got us many a free kick, such was the roar of the barrackers, screaming for a free. THOSE were the glory days, the "salad days of my youth " as George Orwell once said, and the passion was bloody marvellous.
Sadly, that era is gone now, footy is very much more sterile, the Corporates, chardonnay sets have moved in, and the Ponny has become a bit sedate, not enough characters go to the footy now, the game was once the game of the working class masses, but now its too damn expensive to take the kids at times, the prices are pretty bad for food and drink too.
Yep, a bygone era now long gone, RIP the Victoria Park Passion !! |
I agree up to a point Piesnchess. However towards the end of the Vic Park days, a few absolutely bloody feral magpie members used to spoil it for all by verbally abusing Collingwood players more than the opposition or even the umpires. I know that this used to start fights among magpie fans and piss many people off. That was not magpie passion but primeval stupidity.
Passion is great but there is a very fine line between passionate and primitive behaviour. I still stand to be convinced that some supporters know the difference, as we see this type of thing even on Nick's......... |
Lazza, gotta be honest mate, I can honestly say, I never ever, saw any of that type of behaviour every time I went, though I hasten to add, I only ever stood in the one position , Yarra falls end, just down from the old scoreboard, near the right hand point post. Never saw any of it, just plenty of rabid barraking, abuse of the umps and Opposition, and general mayhem and hilarity. the only time I can recall, when the players were booed off the ground, was way back in the early seventies, when we got absolutely smashed by the Hawks-what else is new-and some of our guys seemed to give up in the last qtr, and the whole side got booed off the ground, mainly by the ryder stand mob, I didn't boo, not my style at all. I do miss the old gal and going there, but im glad I have memories of how football once was, the old suburban type trip to the footy.  
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| WarrenerraW wrote: | | I'm watching it now too - very entertaining game. We could and should have that style of atmosphere but it's not easy to create and I'm not sure it suits our game, but anything is worth a try. The atmosphere created by 'ultras' at european football games is pretty amazing and great to be a part of. It's very organized and everyone in their designated sections gets involved with banner and flag waving and chanting. I for one would like to see the ponsford end turned into a sea of black and white with large banners and flags. We could start a 'Collingwood Ultras' group. A few flares and some friday night hooliganism. This could be one step towards supporters reclaiming their game. Bring it on! |
Im going to give you a 10/10 Thank you well said 
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | Me too Joff; I was listening to that and wishing we could replicate it. For whatever reason, the last few years have seen dwindling numbers and loss of atmosphere at our social club end.
Nice result tonight though. To my great surprise, Liverpool did not do the flaky Richmond thing and lose the unloseable. |
You know Neil its really hard to get pumped when you feel their is zero passion around you it's like it's contageous..Against Geelong late in the game we did try the long slow collingwood chant..and we were greeted by stares and contempt in the adjoining bay. I cant figure out what has happened to us.
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| RudeBoy wrote: | I'm still pumped after Liverpool's glorious victory.
While I admire your sentiment Joffa, it just won't work, for one main reason. The English terraces are 99 per cent male. It's a totally different dynamic. Still, I like the idea of the large flags and banners. |
Yes i agree with the 99 percent male Bruce Hope your well mate.
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| Donny wrote: | You can't 'create' passion. It's there or it isn't.
Do you really want the manipulated 'passion' of soccer crowds at the G for Aussie Rules ? Please, no. |
Dont knock the soccer crowds Donny it's one of the reasons that its growing tenfold in this country..Supporters have more freedom not watched and despised by club people. I know first hand from being with the Melb Heart active supporters group behind the goals. Freedom to stand sing and chant and wave bloody big flags, It encaptures you, you become involved..you feel wanted and welcomed and their is a belief that you are indeed the 19th man....Its beautiful
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| John Wren wrote: | | why don't they make part of the ground level of the ponny standing room or "active area" only? create a terrace in one bay of the ponny. |
Sweet Jesus THANK YOU..Thank you
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| yin-YANG wrote: | Not a fan of big flags at the footy... they look good on TV however when I am at the game I want to see the game and I feel sorry for those caught behind massive flags!
The cheersquad wave flags after a goal etc and that is fine... but those huge flags could only work in a game like soccer where the game is so dull (sorry) a lot of fans just go for the singing, drinking and biffo etc.. and often don't watch the game.
You just have to accept Joffa that Aussie Rules has a different supporting culture to soccer. There are a lot of factors and I think having everyone seated does control the 'mob mentality' and losing yourself in the crowd. The other major thing is Aussie rules games move more quickly in terms of ups and downs. Whereas in soccer you cheer a rare goal and bathe in the glory for much of the game! |
I feel sad after reading this 
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| Cam wrote: | | Half pissed blokes sing at the pub, fight over nothing and are 'passionate' too. The average Aussie male will not sing for long unless they are tanked. You can't have one without the other I'm afraid. I'm sure most of em are plonked at the soccer in Europe as well. |
I've been to Celtic Park and stood with the green and white brigade ( I was in heaven ) Been to Stamford Bridge, Fratton Park, St James Park, Upton Park home of the mighty hammers, Never saw one incident or bit of trouble, All i saw was passion, i saw folk who unashamedly love their club in song chants and support.
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| Member 7167 wrote: | Very informative and lets hope that the AFL Fans Assoc can eventually gain this level of support.
My perception is that to date, despite the AFLFA attempting to build momentum the complacency and lack of support by people such as those on this forum makes their job very difficult. |
The AFL fans association is moving along nicely, we knew it would not be easy but i kind of believe we are getting major support and respect from all supporters right across Australia..Chip by chip step by step.
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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YES The Ponsford Stand must be a fortress a place for warriors..Not a picture theatre with ushers running down every two mins to investigate a disturbance LOL.
The Ponsford Stand A place to instill the fear of shit into opposition players and supporters..We got it wrong now it's time to go back and do it right..forget the sponsors and corporates or the television image..Lets be who we are and if they dont like it they can take a flying jump..A fortress supporting the greatest f*&$ing club in the world!!!!
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