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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Bucks has a team playing with, what appears to be, no flair, cohesion or purpose, and against their natural instincts which might be resulting in the such amazingly low disposal efficiency. It worries me greatly that after 12 weeks this year, we have a game plan that's been dissected by opposition teams and exposed and now soundly beaten. So it took two years for Bucks to implement his game plan and 12 weeks in, we need a new one.
We also have a very fragile list with very little substantial depth. I believe our players after our top 15 are good fillers but that's it, and I don't think a team can carry so many filler players.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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| Beast wrote: | I have no doubt the handover had to happen as Malthouse was getting too comfortable with is being mediocre for far too long, he also looked bereft of ideas, started to lose the passion and was in dire need of a kick up the backside. The handover was probably an impetus to us winning the flag, albeit just and against a far inferior side on it's last legs.
And even though we didn't go through the required process giving Bucks the job made sense at the time, unlike extending his contact based on inconclusive evidence of his coaching prowess at best.
I've always said his first year at the helm was a pass mark due to injuries but 2013 was a massive underachievement considering we got most of our players back in the second half of the season.
He's been learning on the job and making numerous blunders as expected but problem is he's been doing it with the list capable of much more under a better guidance and doesn't seem to have learned much apart from saying all the "right" things in his pressers.
He also clearly lacks the ability to motivate and keep the players on their toes by making brave selection calls. Instead he seems to have the habit of dropping the likes of White and Keeffe the moment they have a poor game despite this being detrimental to our structure.
Getting rid of the core of our heart and soul players at the club and replacing them with the far inferior talent thats prepared to walk in line is a massive question on his vision of the game.
It's all good and well to say the Club is bigger than the individual but without individuals our Club is clearly lacking character and comraderie.
We used to be nigh on unbeatable on the road, respond well with our backs to the wall and have a never say die attitude. We used to have lapses but you could always rely on us performing for at least 3 quarters during the game.
It's all gone now, replaced with promises of better future despite evrything pinting to it being a furfie.
And we're stuck with the person primarily responsible for his for another 3 years. |
Who exactly are we talking about here?
Didak? You could count the number of good games he played after 2010 on one hand, no, one finger. He was washed up years ago.
Thomas? Have you seen him this year? Not paying him $600K and getting a first rounder was a great move, even if said first rounder hasn't got on the park this year. Imagine what we'd be saying if we'd forked over the money to get what he's delivered this year.
Benny J? See Didak.
Heath? A bit more complicated this one. Quite frankly, he was a massive liability last year, giving away 2 inexplicable goals a game through shocking decision making and / or lack of discipline. Things couldn't continue on the way they were going. Was it Buckley's fault for allowing things to get to that point? Maybe. Probably. But in the end, he had to go, and I think getting Adams for him will turn out to be a win in the end, regardless of how often he butchers the ball now.
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"We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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| The players that were delisted or traded were either a liability to the team (shaw), had no desire to play for us (thomas) or were passed it (didak/jolly/bj). We have entered a new chapter in our clubs history, and time will tell whether it works out. At the moment we're a mess and things aren't going right. We're not playing well, players have been out of form or injured and it's just all round frustrating for all involved. Bucks has 6 weeks to turn it around and get us up and about again so that we remain a finals chance. |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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| Beast wrote: | I have no doubt the handover had to happen as Malthouse was getting too comfortable with is being mediocre for far too long, he also looked bereft of ideas, started to lose the passion and was in dire need of a kick up the backside. The handover was probably an impetus to us winning the flag, albeit just and against a far inferior side on it's last legs.
And even though we didn't go through the required process giving Bucks the job made sense at the time, unlike extending his contact based on inconclusive evidence of his coaching prowess at best.
I've always said his first year at the helm was a pass mark due to injuries but 2013 was a massive underachievement considering we got most of our players back in the second half of the season.
He's been learning on the job and making numerous blunders as expected but problem is he's been doing it with the list capable of much more under a better guidance and doesn't seem to have learned much apart from saying all the "right" things in his pressers.
He also clearly lacks the ability to motivate and keep the players on their toes by making brave selection calls. Instead he seems to have the habit of dropping the likes of White and Keeffe the moment they have a poor game despite this being detrimental to our structure.
Getting rid of the core of our heart and soul players at the club and replacing them with the far inferior talent thats prepared to walk in line is a massive question on his vision of the game.
It's all good and well to say the Club is bigger than the individual but without individuals our Club is clearly lacking character and comraderie.
We used to be nigh on unbeatable on the road, respond well with our backs to the wall and have a never say die attitude. We used to have lapses but you could always rely on us performing for at least 3 quarters during the game.
It's all gone now, replaced with promises of better future despite evrything pinting to it being a furfie.
And we're stuck with the person primarily responsible for his for another 3 years. |
Good post and I can't fault a word of it sadly. |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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| Jezza wrote: | Right now we wouldn't look any better with Malthouse in charge. Malthouse was a great coach for us in the 2000s but now he would be stale if he was still there. His game plan is outdated and his ego started to get the better of him as time went on. I'm glad he moved on after 2011 rather than staying and causing a divide between him and Bucks in the inner-sanctum.
In regards to Bucks, time will tell whether he proves to be successful or not. I've always hoped that Bucks would deliver the ultimate prize for us as his loyalty and passion for the club is undoubtable but if things don't improve then serious questions need to be asked at the end of the season. I think regardless of what happens now until the end of the season, I think he has next year to improve but if we continue going backwards then I think his time may be up by the end of 2015. I'm starting to get a feeling that things won't work out the way we hope with him but I really hope I'm wrong. |
Can't fault this either.
Malthouse was good in his day but those days are over. Without a first class football dept behind him, he is struggling and being found out regularly and badly. The grumpiness and surliness are by products of his disillusionment with where Carlton are headed. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Sign are not good. We have got Worse each season that Bucks is as coach
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I am Da Man |
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Beast
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
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| Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | Beast wrote: | I have no doubt the handover had to happen as Malthouse was getting too comfortable with is being mediocre for far too long, he also looked bereft of ideas, started to lose the passion and was in dire need of a kick up the backside. The handover was probably an impetus to us winning the flag, albeit just and against a far inferior side on it's last legs.
And even though we didn't go through the required process giving Bucks the job made sense at the time, unlike extending his contact based on inconclusive evidence of his coaching prowess at best.
I've always said his first year at the helm was a pass mark due to injuries but 2013 was a massive underachievement considering we got most of our players back in the second half of the season.
He's been learning on the job and making numerous blunders as expected but problem is he's been doing it with the list capable of much more under a better guidance and doesn't seem to have learned much apart from saying all the "right" things in his pressers.
He also clearly lacks the ability to motivate and keep the players on their toes by making brave selection calls. Instead he seems to have the habit of dropping the likes of White and Keeffe the moment they have a poor game despite this being detrimental to our structure.
Getting rid of the core of our heart and soul players at the club and replacing them with the far inferior talent thats prepared to walk in line is a massive question on his vision of the game.
It's all good and well to say the Club is bigger than the individual but without individuals our Club is clearly lacking character and comraderie.
We used to be nigh on unbeatable on the road, respond well with our backs to the wall and have a never say die attitude. We used to have lapses but you could always rely on us performing for at least 3 quarters during the game.
It's all gone now, replaced with promises of better future despite evrything pinting to it being a furfie.
And we're stuck with the person primarily responsible for his for another 3 years. |
Who exactly are we talking about here?
Didak? You could count the number of good games he played after 2010 on one hand, no, one finger. He was washed up years ago.
Thomas? Have you seen him this year? Not paying him $600K and getting a first rounder was a great move, even if said first rounder hasn't got on the park this year. Imagine what we'd be saying if we'd forked over the money to get what he's delivered this year.
Benny J? See Didak.
Heath? A bit more complicated this one. Quite frankly, he was a massive liability last year, giving away 2 inexplicable goals a game through shocking decision making and / or lack of discipline. Things couldn't continue on the way they were going. Was it Buckley's fault for allowing things to get to that point? Maybe. Probably. But in the end, he had to go, and I think getting Adams for him will turn out to be a win in the end, regardless of how often he butchers the ball now. |
Dids was on decline no doubt but still had a year left to offer especially given the lack of skill and impotence of our current forward options.
I was quite non-fussed about Daisy leaving but make no mistake - the only reason he isn't at Collingwood is because him and Bucks didn't see eye to eye.
Getting rid of Heater is the worst decision our Club has made in yonks.
For every brain fade of his there was a couple a great on filed acts, not to mention the fact he always pumped everyone up and lifted the boys spirits in the dressing room.
We got rid of one of better players for one of GWS' worst, all because Bucks didn't like being challenged.
Johno went of his ow accord as his body has had enough.
No matter how much I hated Dawes in his last year Bucks was primarily responsible for him loosing all confidence by not dropping him much earlier in the year. He did the same thing to Lynch last season.
And you forgot to mention Wellers who was pushed, its not surprising that he looks like a fish out of water at West Coast without his mates.
Exactly the reason why the likes of Swanny and Beams aren't playing with much zest this year.
Bottom line is all of these players had their minuses but they were an integral part of a close knit unit, something thats clearly not there right now. Bucks couldn't reign them in and simply got rid of them in the name of changing culture. The same culture that was good enough to make us dream about a dynasty..... |
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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I get what you're saying about the close knit unit and the chemistry not being there, but I think you're being a bit unfair. You could even say that success breeds chemistry, not the other way round.
Dids did not have a year left, no way. He hit the wall hard in 2011 and the only reason he stayed on as long as he did was due to signing a three year contract in 2010.
I don't think Daisy leaving was anything personal. We simply weren't prepared to bet $600K per year on him regaining his form of 2 seasons ago. Carlton were, and so far I'd say we've won that bet. Getting a first rounder was gravy.
I guess I disagree with you about both Shaw and Adams. I didn't see too much good from Heath last year, just a steady stream of brainfarts. I do think Bucks screwed up by not reining him in. He was never that bad under Mick. I also think Adams will be good. Even with his bad kicking, he was still one of our better players yesterday (yeah, I know).
You're right, I did forget Wellers who is eminently forgettable. He's a pretty average player and to get a first rounder for him is pretty good. If he needs his mates around him to play good footy, well....
Beams has been excellent this year, Swan's just old. Look at most of the other guys taken in the same draft as him, they're struggling too.
Finally, isn't it a little bit hypocritical to rip Bucks for dropping White and Keeffe for structure and then rip him for not doing the same with Dawes and Lynch?
I get that everyone's upset that the dynasty that seemed possible a few years ago hasn't happened, but dynasties are hard. Everyone who wins a flag or comes close thinks they're going to have one and hardly anyone ever does.
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"We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Daisy leaving was the best thing that could have happened, IMO. Netted us pick 10, FFS!
And I agree with the Duff, once 2011 was gone, we were never going to get more flags with that team.
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kill for collingwood! |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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Still makes me sick that we lost so many premiership heroes. Heroes who.left broken hearted in the name of Buckley's culture search. Only one thing counts in this game. PREMIERSHIPS.
No wonder Swanny doesnt want to play under these circumstances. Im sure he isnt even barracking for us at the moment. Premiership team mates cast aside with total disrespect. It would be called sabotage if an outsider did it to us. I wont be so harsh, more a case of arrogance, jealousy with a healthy dose of stupidity. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| So which is it? Are premierships the only things that count or should the club have held onto premiership heroes that had nothing left to give? You can't have both in the real world....which is it? |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| So which is it? Are premierships the only things that count or should the club have held onto premiership heroes that had nothing left to give? You can't have both in the real world....which is it? |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| nomadjack wrote: | | So which is it? Are premierships the only things that count or should the club have held onto premiership heroes that had nothing left to give? You can't have both in the real world....which is it? |
The obvious one. |
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regan is true fullback
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Location: Granville. nsw
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ok,
take a deep breath. what we have got to do is take a look at what has gone before, and learn from our more successful cousins.
from Hawthorn:
identify the need before you get a champion, example Brian Lake. What exactly do we need, then purchase what is out there. We did this in 2009 with Jolly and Ball.
from Carlton:
get the best coach available. doesn't always work - Pagan, jury still out on Malthouse. worked with Parkin
from Sydney: no d1ckheads policy
from Essendon: get a bunch of young stars coming through together. This worked with Brown, McGuane and Monkhurst.
from Geelong - get a bunch of dads with time on their hands, especially at night
from Brisbane - suck up to the chief Cardinal big time, and he will give you everything you want, including 3 premierships.
I guess we learn from the successful clubs that good administration is worth more than coaches or champions.
from Collingwood - where do you start???
DON'T do the following.
keep a useless president, then replace him with someone worse.
If a champion wants to come to Collingwood, don't worry about offending Footscray.
Recruit someone from SA as coach who has no idea about AFL.
Get rid of a champion coach mid season. creates a mess.
If things go badly, have an all in brawl.
Last edited by regan is true fullback on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| regan is true fullback wrote: | ok,
take a deep breath. what we have got to do is take a look at what has gone before, and learn from our more successful cousins.
from Hawthorn:
identify the need before you get a champion, example Brian Lake. What exactly do we need, then purchase what is out there. We did this in 2009 with Jolly and Ball.
assuming that we are in a position to contend for another flag. after 2011 it seemed apparent then that we'd be falling away. you only really get 2-3 years at the top to have a real crack at the flag.
from Carlton:
get the best coach available. doesn't always work - Pagan, jury still out on Malthouse. worked with Parkin
who was available at the time that was realistically available?
from Sydney: no d1ckheads policy
many of our supporters are ok with having dickheads so long as they can play footy.
from Essendon: get a bunch of young stars coming through together. This worked with Brown, McGuane and Monkhurst.
we have a bunch of young stars coming through. they have just begun their journey. get 50-60 games into them and we will see a different picture.
from Collingwood - where do you start???
we're not that broken. just haven't lived up to the manic expectations of most.
DON'T do the following.
keep a useless president, then replace him with someone worse.
If a champion wants to come to Collingwood, don't worry about offending Footscray.
Recruit someone from SA as coach who has no idea about AFL.
Get rid of a champion coach mid season. creates a mess.
If things go badly, have an all in brawl. |
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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