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Russia invades Ukraine

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:37 pm
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Perhaps for once China can step up to the plate and show they actually have some sort of moral compass.

I wont be holding my breath.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:41 pm
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But it's true, though. Lets not allow point-scoring to get in the way of condemning what is an extraordinarily aggressive and concerning act of annexation.

Perhaps this hits a little closer to home because Lola's hometown (Kharkhov) is very much in Russia's sights at the moment and many Ukrainians living there have already been brutalised by pro-Russian groups. I think she is quite justifiably worried about the fate of Ukrainian sovereignty and the friends and family members who might potentially be in the firing line. So, perhaps I'm biased, but I don't think using this as an opportunity to pot the US is particularly helpful. It just seems like fence-sitting.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:44 pm
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swoop42 wrote:
Perhaps for once China can step up to the plate and show they actually have some sort of moral compass.

I wont be holding my breath.


China is hedging slightly, but unsurprisingly leaning toward Putin's side:

http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-03/is-china-siding-with-putin-in-the-ukraine-crisis

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:52 pm
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^Yes, give my regards to Lola; I'm actually very worried, and it's not point scoring as you think. It's a lest we forget and get deceived again and again by the same cowardly Bush/Blair/Howard types, putting us in these situation where genuine efforts to offset or minimize aggression are needed.

The serious point, David, is that in all likelihood Putin can do what he likes because there's no will to intervene.

Question for Lola: Just how large is the segment of the population which moderately to strongly supports Russia?

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:04 pm
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I've asked her this—she believes that Putin-supporters make up a significant minority, albeit a somewhat stronger one in Crimea (which, for those not following this closely, is now completely under Russian military control). Much of the support for Putin comes from those of Russian ethnic background, who comprise 17% of the total population and are mostly concentrated in eastern cities like Kharkhov, though quite a few ethnically Russian Ukrainians (like Lola) are also anti-Putin. Otherwise, there is a great amount of Ukrainian nationalist sentiment in the west of the country, and it goes without saying that much of this area would be anti-Putin, invasion and Russia in general (given Russia's history as coloniser and, under Stalin, ethnic cleanser). Those of Ukrainian ethnolinguistic background make up 77% of the population.

Conversely, many in Ukraine do see Russia as an "older brother" figure and have in the past supported closer ties. It remains to be seen what effect the invasion will have on that.

Hope that answers at least some of the question. This Wikipedia page may also provide some background:

http://tinyurl.com/WikiRussiaUkraineRelations

I'll encourage "Miss Troll" to post here and offer some more context.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:58 pm
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^Thanks.

Have you been following German opinion? It might make for an interesting angle.

Haven't read this yet:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/russian-invasion-of-crimea-will-create-nationalist-problem-in-ukraine-a-956614.html

Ok, read it. Very grim.

vs. an article a week or so before:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/situation-in-ukraine-puts-putin-in-a-difficult-spot-a-955604.html

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:18 pm
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Cheers, PTID. Good article. I think we all hope that, whatever happens, this doesn't escalate any further.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:22 pm
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Everyone relax, it's all good, problem solved.

Kevin Rudd has flown over to personally fix things

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/kevin-rudd-reportedly-lending-a-helping-hand-on-ukraine-situation-20140305-345vk.html







David, tell Lola to pray for any relatives she has over there.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:47 pm
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So apparently the Crimea has voted to become an independent nation and align with Russia.

How will that work out?

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:21 pm
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Unless I've missed something, they haven't voted for independence; they've simply voted to be subsumed into the Russian Federation. Crimea already shared a maritime border with Russia, so, if you look at a map, it's really just a (fairly major) border shift.

The referendum was of course illegal in that they had no right under international law to hold it—it would be a bit like WA holding an unofficial referendum to secede and join the UK.

While the questions were rigged (there was no status quo option) and it's more than possible that most pro-Ukrainians in the region boycotted it due to its illegitimacy, the overwhelming result is still probably fairly reflective of majority Crimean sentiment. The question now is how this kind of blatant annexation will play out in the Ukrainian/Russian dynamic and the world as a whole (the US and EU are pretty unimpressed, to say the least). It's quite possible that it will embolden Putin to seize Kharkov as well. If Ukraine loses the east as well as Crimea it'd pretty much destroy them as a functional independent nation—most of their manufacturing takes place in those parts.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:34 pm
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I had a Russian boyfriend, his name was Vladimir, but we called him Eric. How the **** do you get Eric from Vladimir.

He's a fat pig now, that makes me unreasonably happy. I think he's divorced too, even better

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:34 pm
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Lucky ****
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:53 pm
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think positive wrote:
I had a Russian boyfriend, his name was Vladimir, but we called him Eric. How the **** do you get Eric from Vladimir.

He's a fat pig now, that makes me unreasonably happy. I think he's divorced too, even better


Not sure if you still have his number, but do you think you could give him a call and tell him to GTFO of Ukraine? Wink

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:54 pm
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David wrote:
think positive wrote:
I had a Russian boyfriend, his name was Vladimir, but we called him Eric. How the **** do you get Eric from Vladimir.

He's a fat pig now, that makes me unreasonably happy. I think he's divorced too, even better


Not sure if you still have his number, but do you think you could give him a call and tell him to GTFO of Ukraine? Wink


Laughing Laughing Laughing Wink

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:57 pm
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How specifically does He's a fat pig that cause unreasonably happy?
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