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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | I thought watt price tully wrote: | | I was starting to feel depressed after the cricket & footy but The Mad Misogynist Miners Monk drunk with power before his last election ... |
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I saw what you did there 
Mark Dreyfus puts it succinctly:
"....Dreyfus described the proposed attendance at a Liberal party fundraiser as an “extraordinary error of judgment” that would call into question any findings that would ultimately be made by the royal commission.
“He should resign because by his own actions he has created the appearance of bias, and discredited and compromised every single further action by this royal commission, and if he does not resign he should be sacked by this government,” Dreyfus said."
From the Guardian online. |
The most incisive part of anything Mark says is his sonorous voice.
The real pretence here is that commissions royal with any political dimension to them (and that's almost all of them) might ever be anything other than apparently biased, discredited and compromised. In that respect, they tend to be a little like war crimes tribunals - they only ever look in one direction. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | How about we hold a royal commission into them? Perhaps we could appoint Dreyfus as commissioner? |
Not the Dreyfus affair?
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough†Kinky Friedman |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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How hard is it to hire an independent person to conduct a royal commission into the activities of the union movement in Australia?
The Liberals just come off looking like idiots if they didn't appear to be already.
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | I thought watt price tully wrote: | | I was starting to feel depressed after the cricket & footy but The Mad Misogynist Miners Monk drunk with power before his last election ... |
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I saw what you did there
Mark Dreyfus puts it succinctly:
"....Dreyfus described the proposed attendance at a Liberal party fundraiser as an “extraordinary error of judgment” that would call into question any findings that would ultimately be made by the royal commission.
“He should resign because by his own actions he has created the appearance of bias, and discredited and compromised every single further action by this royal commission, and if he does not resign he should be sacked by this government,” Dreyfus said."
From the Guardian online. |
The most incisive part of anything Mark says is his sonorous voice.
The real pretence here is that commissions royal with any political dimension to them (and that's almost all of them) might ever be anything other than apparently biased, discredited and compromised. In that respect, they tend to be a little like war crimes tribunals - they only ever look in one direction. |
It's just so "nice" when the covert becomes overt.
The Mad Misogynist Monk called the RC commissioner "an honourable man". I believe him.
The honourable man just needs to the honourable thing.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough†Kinky Friedman |
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| Jezza wrote: | How hard is it to hire an independent person to conduct a royal commission into the activities of the union movement in Australia?
The Liberals just come off looking like idiots if they didn't appear to be already. |
How hard is it to get an unbiased Royal Commission?
The Government didn't want an unbiased tribunal so they employed Minter Ellison.
The Attorney General Mark Brandis worked for before he entered Federal Government politics.
| Quote: |
Minter Ellison has received almost $8 million for its work for the federal government on the inquiry into trade union corruption.
The royal commission was extended to run until December 2015, and will cost taxpayers $50.4 million.
The government defended the appointment of the firm, saying Attorney-General George Brandis, a former Minter employee, had no influence on the decision.
The federal government said Minter Ellison was engaged under a limited tender procurement, after being identified as suitable by Commissioner Dyson Heydon and counsel assisting the inquiry Jeremy Stoljar, SC. |
http://www.afr.com/business/legal/royal-commission-a-boon-for-minter-ellison-20150224-13nruw#ixzz3im2TDOsM |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| 3.14159 wrote: | How hard is it to get an unbiased Royal Commission?
The Government didn't want an unbiased tribunal so they employed Minter Ellison.
The Attorney General Mark Brandis worked for before he entered Federal Government politics.
| Quote: |
Minter Ellison has received almost $8 million for its work for the federal government on the inquiry into trade union corruption.
The royal commission was extended to run until December 2015, and will cost taxpayers $50.4 million.
The government defended the appointment of the firm, saying Attorney-General George Brandis, a former Minter employee, had no influence on the decision.
The federal government said Minter Ellison was engaged under a limited tender procurement, after being identified as suitable by Commissioner Dyson Heydon and counsel assisting the inquiry Jeremy Stoljar, SC. |
http://www.afr.com/business/legal/royal-commission-a-boon-for-minter-ellison-20150224-13nruw#ixzz3im2TDOsM |
It would be amusing if the Liberal party member, the barrister who invited the biased Judge on Liberal letter-head to the Liberal Party fundraiser was from the same firm.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough†Kinky Friedman |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Jezza wrote: | How hard is it to hire an independent person to conduct a royal commission into the activities of the union movement in Australia?
The Liberals just come off looking like idiots if they didn't appear to be already. |
Sometimes I feel rather sad for sensible, intelligent right-wing people like Jezza. It must be incredibly frustrating to see the representatives of your side of politics acting like such greedy, scheming tools and - worse! - not even (so far as anyone can tell) having enough awareness or moral honesty to recognise their own unfitness for office.
Then I look at prominent self-serving traitors to the left wing like Kevin Rudd and Martin Ferguson and Bruce Hawker and I remember that greedy tools are readily found on both sides of the house.
On the other hand, there are some good people to be found in the the Parliamentary Labor Party, and quite a few others who are nonentities but at least not actually bad people - perhaps about half of the total if we try not to be too harsh on them. Then I go looking for their equivalents in the Liberal Party: the honest time-servers, and the reasonably intelligent and above all else decent ones ... and I can't find even one. Perhaps there is one. Perhaps there are as many as three or four, but if so they are keeping very, very low profile. So I go back to feeling sad for honest right-wingers like Jezza. It must be bloody hard not having anyone you can honestly admire
(PS: I'm not a Labor man. Never have been. I generally give my preferences to Labor before the Liberals, but not always. I always used to vote Democrat before Meg Lees killed the party with her notorious betrayal. These days I'm probably closer to the Greens than any other large party, but have major disagreements with them over several things and certainly wouldn't count myself as a rusted on supporter. They do at least seem to be universally honest and thoughtful (so far as their parliamentary representatives are concerned), as are several of the independents, including one or two with very different views to mine. Madigan, for example, the ex-DLP chap, is more conservative than the Liberal Party and many of his views are anathema to me, but he is an honest and decent man. His type is impossible to find in the Liberal Party these days, and pretty hard to find in Labor.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Jezza wrote: | How hard is it to hire an independent person to conduct a royal commission into the activities of the union movement in Australia?
The Liberals just come off looking like idiots if they didn't appear to be already. |
I was going to say just as hard as hiring an independent person to conduct Royal Commission into business. But hand on, there hasn't been one.
It's so re-assuring to know private industry is so above corruption & wrongdoing, especially in the building industry.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough†Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| 3.14159 wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | How hard is it to hire an independent person to conduct a royal commission into the activities of the union movement in Australia?
The Liberals just come off looking like idiots if they didn't appear to be already. |
How hard is it to get an unbiased Royal Commission?
The Government didn't want an unbiased tribunal so they employed Minter Ellison.
The Attorney General Mark Brandis worked for before he entered Federal Government politics.
| Quote: |
Minter Ellison has received almost $8 million for its work for the federal government on the inquiry into trade union corruption.
The royal commission was extended to run until December 2015, and will cost taxpayers $50.4 million.
The government defended the appointment of the firm, saying Attorney-General George Brandis, a former Minter employee, had no influence on the decision.
The federal government said Minter Ellison was engaged under a limited tender procurement, after being identified as suitable by Commissioner Dyson Heydon and counsel assisting the inquiry Jeremy Stoljar, SC. |
http://www.afr.com/business/legal/royal-commission-a-boon-for-minter-ellison-20150224-13nruw#ixzz3im2TDOsM |
Look, provided that the appointment processes have been appropriate, there's not much merit in getting excited about links between the particular firm appointed to do the work and the politicians. Minters has had a particular focus on mid-ranking government work of this kind (and has been on State and Federal solicitors panels for many years under both sets of lizards) and they likely got the gig because they were price-competitive, as well as being undoubtedly competent. There are all sorts of questions one might well ask about the cost of the exercise and so on but I don't think that the answers to any of those questions are particularly problematic in the present circumstances.
Plainly, Minters was capable of doing the required work - it isn't like Brandis' aunty has been given the gig - and it is a mistake to look at the solicitors for evidence of bias. The bias in these things is typically in the terms of reference, which are - of course - set by the executive government, in the particular things that a commissioner decides to focus upon and in the way counsel-assisting goes about her or his job. |
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| Pies4shaw wrote: |
Look, provided that the appointment processes have been appropriate, there's not much merit in getting excited about links between the particular firm appointed to do the work and the politicians. Minters has had a particular focus on mid-ranking government work of this kind (and has been on State and Federal solicitors panels for many years under both sets of lizards) and they likely got the gig because they were price-competitive, as well as being undoubtedly competent.There are all sorts of questions one might well ask about the cost of the exercise and so on but I don't think that the answers to any of those questions are particularly problematic in the present circumstances.
Plainly, Minters was capable of doing the required work - it isn't like Brandis' aunty has been given the gig - and it is a mistake to look at the solicitors for evidence of bias. The bias in these things is typically in the terms of reference, which are - of course - set by the executive government, in the particular things that a commissioner decides to focus upon and in the way counsel-assisting goes about her or his job. |
The cost and the choice of law firm is, as you say, a side issue.
The worrying thing about this Royal Fishing Commission is what it says about the democratic process in this country.
I all ways thought Australia was a stand-up society where you argue with those you disagree with.
What Abbott is doing is reminiscent of Stalin and Mao's and their infamous show trials.
As an Australian I thought we were better than that! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Well, commissions royal have ever been used thus. Yes, it's political, but they almost always are. Once every quarter-century or so, a useful one gets to the bottom of a difficult problem and the exception that proves the rule is then used for the next quarter-century or so to justify hideous, unfair, nasty political witch-hunts. Although this is the nastiest recent example, the sad truth is that both sides of politics do it, when they can. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ Well yes, but it's misleading to say that. There is indeed almost always some element of political scheming involved in an royal commission, but the Abbott government has gone way beyond the usual and expected mild cheating and habitually grosses out on it to the point where the commissions themselves are barely better than very expensive comedies.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | I thought watt price tully wrote: | | I was starting to feel depressed after the cricket & footy but The Mad Misogynist Miners Monk drunk with power before his last election ... |
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I saw what you did there
Mark Dreyfus puts it succinctly:
"....Dreyfus described the proposed attendance at a Liberal party fundraiser as an “extraordinary error of judgment” that would call into question any findings that would ultimately be made by the royal commission.
“He should resign because by his own actions he has created the appearance of bias, and discredited and compromised every single further action by this royal commission, and if he does not resign he should be sacked by this government,” Dreyfus said."
From the Guardian online. |
I prefer Richard Dreyfuss.
Looks like the Libs are gonna need a new boat.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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That is some inspired MS Paintbrush-ing. 
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Oops. Too much data. |
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