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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Beast wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | R_T_RUSH wrote: | Just watched Buckley's press conference. Seems Dave The Man and Bucks are both on the same level in terms of game analysis in that they both agree the game was lost from missing goals. Well Bucks, lets get DTM on the panel - he'd come a lot cheaper than Lappin and Eade.
His analysis of Ablett running free: He aggregates both Beams and Swans stats to assert they were on a par with Ablett. What sort of rot is that. Almost looked surprised when Macaffer was suggested as a tagger.
And blames Swan for missing a chance as a bg reason why the Suns ran away with it....along with the coaching effort, that was the worst media performance Bucks has put in, and that's supposed to be his strong point.
I know, I know, the rookie coach needs time and it's not entirely his fault the president has pushed us down the road to oblivion, but by gee it's frustrating and humiliating. |
Was a 12 point turn around. Swanny runs into goal and misses everything from 25 meters, Suns rebound and get a goal. Very significant in the scheme of things. |
The 12 points turn around had stuff all bearing on the game, unlike the actual reason behind that laxidasical kick.
Swans turnover happened way too early in the game to be a significant factor.
Not a good form by Bucks to even bring it up.
To be honest I've been very disappointed with Bucks' post-game comments for some time now, praises the side when they manage to fall over the line or produce deplorable second halves against shitkicker sides and gives us nothing but we need to work and train harder and better stuff when we get humiliated. And Pendles seems to be parroting him. |
Agreed. I don't expect Bucks to come out and say he's failing as a coach and needs to be sacked  . All I want to hear is an understanding that we're not playing the way we want and that we are working on fixing it.
Listening to Buckley's press conferences recently you'd think we were playing exactly the kind of football we want to play, and all that we need to be a real contender is for the players to stop making mistakes and to work a bit harder. I'm sure this is not what Buckley believes, it would just be nice to hear him acknowledge it every now and then. |
Yeah, and before the game, I'd love him to tell everyone what little niggles players have, and what things they're likely to trial during the upcoming game, and what matchups they're going to try and why, and what they really think of the quality of the opposition. I mean we're supporters, we're entitled to at least that.... aren't we... |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| woftam wrote: | | didick wrote: | | Why is it in the games we get beat that we never seem to be at the drop of the ball to make a contest? Happened in all our losses this year and showed again on Saturday evening. Teams are kicking out of defence and following up through the ground and there's no contest for possession? Out players always arrive a second or three after the opposition have marked. Are we lazy? Unorganised? Game plan? In games like against the Cats we were relentless and on top. But against the suns, bombers, swans etc we always seem a few seconds behind. |
Simple. We play a zone defence. The only way we can get the football off them is to hope they screw up the kick, because we don't try to get it off them ourselves with a contest or physical pressure. |
And exactly which teams in the league don't use a zone defence? |
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daisys dad
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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To everyone on this site. Before you go off on your emotion rants please start to consider the facts. Last week was the first time that ball, pendles, swan & beams had played together since round 2 2012. Players like caff, keefe, ball & krak etc are coming back after knee injuries. Stats tell us it takes time and their form will be up and down. Our back line has been missing players every week. Our forward line has been missing players, our midfield is cut down every week. How is a team and a coach meant to implement their game plan when there are always forced changes.
We all know that a full list and time creates the best teams.
IF we can get all players on the park next year we will be top 4 and we will be a genuine premiership threat. Players have flat games. If half of you did physical exercise rather than finger exercise you would know that you have good and bad days no matter how fit you are. Coaches have good and bad days. ALL OF THEM.
And to bag players that are in and out of the side. The coach has to see if they are improving and have the capability to make it. The seconds are very different so there is only one place to test that. Lets not forget Ben Reids first couple of games(sorry Ben).
Everyone take a deep breathe. The suns are a good side and they had a good game. We were a little off. We are a quality side and have one of the best coaches.
At least we beat the scum twice. We all know that they are the ones we all care about.
Smile, breathe and have a great day.
_________________
Black & White Blood
Pg 201-203 |
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woftam 
I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic
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| jackcass wrote: | | woftam wrote: | | didick wrote: | | Why is it in the games we get beat that we never seem to be at the drop of the ball to make a contest? Happened in all our losses this year and showed again on Saturday evening. Teams are kicking out of defence and following up through the ground and there's no contest for possession? Out players always arrive a second or three after the opposition have marked. Are we lazy? Unorganised? Game plan? In games like against the Cats we were relentless and on top. But against the suns, bombers, swans etc we always seem a few seconds behind. |
Simple. We play a zone defence. The only way we can get the football off them is to hope they screw up the kick, because we don't try to get it off them ourselves with a contest or physical pressure. |
And exactly which teams in the league don't use a zone defence? |
I don't know how many, but ours sucks.
Watch the Sydney, & Port games again for starters.
They went man on man every time we had the ball. We had to kick to a contest. When they had it we defended space. They kicked to each other at will with no pressure on the ball carrier & no man standing their intended targets.
Why do you think we have become so easy to go coast to coast against? I can handle being beaten on merit & talent. I can't handle being beaten because we don't make a contest. That is not on. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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This. Or more accurately, it sucked on Saturday as it did against the Bumbers, the Dawks, the Swans and Port.
It's not about the concept of a zone defence because most teams use them more often than not, it's about execusion. The main reason you use zone defence is to create opportunities which we're doing. We just aren't maximising the outcomes of those opportunities. Teams with lots of pace or very good skills seem to cut us up but the gameplan works more often than not. The better we use the footy and convert our opportunities, the better the gameplan looks. |
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woftam
I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic
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I disagree. While we made some silly skill errors on the weekend, it's not the attacking aspect of our game that causes us to give up easy goals. It is our setup in defence. I admit it is a bugbear of mine. I struggle to watch our games any more, even when it is obvious we are going to win the game. I love watching a contest & when we don't have the ball we aren't providing one anywhere near enough these days. We spectate because we are not in a position to influence the next contest.
The opposition teams kicking efficiency will be a lot higher than it should be, because nobody is up in their face of the ball carrier & nobody is covering their targets. The other thing we face week in & week out is that our forward line is flooded, while the opposition's remain open. Leaving Cloke with 3 opponents & then kicking on his head isn't going to get the job done. We have to do things better. If we play the same way, we will get the same results in the coming weeks. |
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Beast
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
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| jackcass wrote: | | Beast wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | R_T_RUSH wrote: | Just watched Buckley's press conference. Seems Dave The Man and Bucks are both on the same level in terms of game analysis in that they both agree the game was lost from missing goals. Well Bucks, lets get DTM on the panel - he'd come a lot cheaper than Lappin and Eade.
His analysis of Ablett running free: He aggregates both Beams and Swans stats to assert they were on a par with Ablett. What sort of rot is that. Almost looked surprised when Macaffer was suggested as a tagger.
And blames Swan for missing a chance as a bg reason why the Suns ran away with it....along with the coaching effort, that was the worst media performance Bucks has put in, and that's supposed to be his strong point.
I know, I know, the rookie coach needs time and it's not entirely his fault the president has pushed us down the road to oblivion, but by gee it's frustrating and humiliating. |
Was a 12 point turn around. Swanny runs into goal and misses everything from 25 meters, Suns rebound and get a goal. Very significant in the scheme of things. |
The 12 points turn around had stuff all bearing on the game, unlike the actual reason behind that laxidasical kick.
Swans turnover happened way too early in the game to be a significant factor.
Not a good form by Bucks to even bring it up.
To be honest I've been very disappointed with Bucks' post-game comments for some time now, praises the side when they manage to fall over the line or produce deplorable second halves against shitkicker sides and gives us nothing but we need to work and train harder and better stuff when we get humiliated. And Pendles seems to be parroting him. |
Gee, and here I was thinking that we only lost by 7 points and a 12 point turn around in that context was significant. At least as significant as Cloke kicking 2 goals 4 from 8 shots on goal. At least as significant as Beams, Sack and Reid missing set shots. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
Side by Side |
My bad for expecting you to understand that the selection and the attitude had a lot more to do with us losing than the isolated incidents, especially Swan's blunder that happened so early in the game.
Viva la sycophancy. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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Ya see, just simple country folk out 'ere...
You keep saying that Swan missed his shot on goal "so early in the game" but my memory of it was about halfway through the last... hardly early... and a momentum killer...
But thanks for showin' we simple country folk the error of our ways.
I'm sure Bucks'll log on here some time this week and will find your insights on selection and attitude a revelation. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| jackcass wrote: | Ya see, just simple country folk out 'ere...
You keep saying that Swan missed his shot on goal "so early in the game" but my memory of it was about halfway through the last... hardly early... and a momentum killer...
But thanks for showin' we simple country folk the error of our ways.
I'm sure Bucks'll log on here some time this week and will find your insights on selection and attitude a revelation. |
You are dealing with the Beast, Daz..... 
As some country folk would say, he is such a city lowlife that even our cockroaches are repulsed by him....... 
Just not worth the effort of arguing with a ------- like him...... |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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I reckon we lost because bloody cloke could not hit the broadside of a barn door at ten paces, he could not hit a bull in the ass with a shovel, he cannot even piss straight intoa toilet bowel.   
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Poor old Clokey.
If he was ever shown the door by the club he'd miss and hit the wall.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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I blame the top order.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| jackcass wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | Beast wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | R_T_RUSH wrote: | Just watched Buckley's press conference. Seems Dave The Man and Bucks are both on the same level in terms of game analysis in that they both agree the game was lost from missing goals. Well Bucks, lets get DTM on the panel - he'd come a lot cheaper than Lappin and Eade.
His analysis of Ablett running free: He aggregates both Beams and Swans stats to assert they were on a par with Ablett. What sort of rot is that. Almost looked surprised when Macaffer was suggested as a tagger.
And blames Swan for missing a chance as a bg reason why the Suns ran away with it....along with the coaching effort, that was the worst media performance Bucks has put in, and that's supposed to be his strong point.
I know, I know, the rookie coach needs time and it's not entirely his fault the president has pushed us down the road to oblivion, but by gee it's frustrating and humiliating. |
Was a 12 point turn around. Swanny runs into goal and misses everything from 25 meters, Suns rebound and get a goal. Very significant in the scheme of things. |
The 12 points turn around had stuff all bearing on the game, unlike the actual reason behind that laxidasical kick.
Swans turnover happened way too early in the game to be a significant factor.
Not a good form by Bucks to even bring it up.
To be honest I've been very disappointed with Bucks' post-game comments for some time now, praises the side when they manage to fall over the line or produce deplorable second halves against shitkicker sides and gives us nothing but we need to work and train harder and better stuff when we get humiliated. And Pendles seems to be parroting him. |
Agreed. I don't expect Bucks to come out and say he's failing as a coach and needs to be sacked . All I want to hear is an understanding that we're not playing the way we want and that we are working on fixing it.
Listening to Buckley's press conferences recently you'd think we were playing exactly the kind of football we want to play, and all that we need to be a real contender is for the players to stop making mistakes and to work a bit harder. I'm sure this is not what Buckley believes, it would just be nice to hear him acknowledge it every now and then. |
Yeah, and before the game, I'd love him to tell everyone what little niggles players have, and what things they're likely to trial during the upcoming game, and what matchups they're going to try and why, and what they really think of the quality of the opposition. I mean we're supporters, we're entitled to at least that.... aren't we... |
You're being overly defensive mate. I'm not demanding anything. Nor is what I'd like to hear from Bucks anything extraordinary; other coaches make such statements all the time.
It's not a real issue for me, on field results are my only measuring stick for a coach. Bucks can deflect, blame the players and glibberise all he likes as long as that is taken care of. It wouldn't change my opinion of his media performance, but it would allow me to overlook it in favour of the positives.
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Well done boys! |
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jack_spain 
Joined: 03 May 2008
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| woftam wrote: | | didick wrote: | | Why is it in the games we get beat that we never seem to be at the drop of the ball to make a contest? Happened in all our losses this year and showed again on Saturday evening. Teams are kicking out of defence and following up through the ground and there's no contest for possession? Out players always arrive a second or three after the opposition have marked. Are we lazy? Unorganised? Game plan? In games like against the Cats we were relentless and on top. But against the suns, bombers, swans etc we always seem a few seconds behind. |
Simple. We play a zone defence. The only way we can get the football off them is to hope they screw up the kick, because we don't try to get it off them ourselves with a contest or physical pressure. |
And THAT is why Buckley is a stubborn bastard. Doesn't he realise that zoning off in footy has even been abandoned by Ross Lyon? It doesn't work. And yet our manic pressure won us the flag in 2010. Go figure!
BTW there is far too much DENIAL going on here. Things will be right again next year, don't you worry. We'll get all our injured players back? etc. etc. etc.
What if Buckley really can't coach? |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | jackcass wrote: |
Yeah, and before the game, I'd love him to tell everyone what little niggles players have, and what things they're likely to trial during the upcoming game, and what matchups they're going to try and why, and what they really think of the quality of the opposition. I mean we're supporters, we're entitled to at least that.... aren't we... |
You're being overly defensive mate. I'm not demanding anything. Nor is what I'd like to hear from Bucks anything extraordinary; other coaches make such statements all the time.
It's not a real issue for me, on field results are my only measuring stick for a coach. Bucks can deflect, blame the players and glibberise all he likes as long as that is taken care of. It wouldn't change my opinion of his media performance, but it would allow me to overlook it in favour of the positives. |
Quite the opposite actually. Find it amusing this is actually an issue.
Bucks doesn't ask the questions, just answer them. And he's generally refreshingly honest. |
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