Faith and science
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 1 Guest
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
^
We have a profit share arrangement.   
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
 |
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | ^
We have a profit share arrangement. |
We're ploughing the moulah sorry donations of the faithful into our Intelligent Design Time Share where for a little donation ($1,000) and you can have a holiday for god.
Sign the cheques to Tammy May, Stui May & WPT May & may the god of your choice bless you & you. 
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Tue May 28, 2013 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ what a miserable lot of cynics you two are ....
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^
Stop sooking. I already told you we'd cut you in, you just have to get over your loin cloth phobia and accept a few splinters in your shoulders
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
It wasn't the loin cloth I jibbed at, it was where WPT wanted to put it! 
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Tannin wrote: | | It wasn't the loin cloth I jibbed at, it was where WPT wanted to put it! |
Why for a $2,000 donation you can have the Jimmy Swaggart room.
For $10,000 you can have the deluxe Jerry Falwell room with free Bibles (None of that St James stuff with us) , & we'll show you a free screening of "Night of the Hunter":
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X20XIg38GcE
& a CD of Kinky Friedman in the Mens room in LA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OYvyBeWX04
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
At the risk of reigniting old wounds, I couldn't think of a more appropriate thread than this and didn't want to start a new one.
Interesting article in Time magazine by Scott Adams. He's a bit of a left field thinker and you never quite know when he's taking the P155 and when he's serious.
Thought provoking stuff though. Particularly the bit at the end which is quite Matrix esque.
http://ideas.time.com/2013/09/18/dilberts-scott-adams-choose-your-immortality/
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Interesting (though he possibly overestimates how near this technology is to being realised).
Lola and I had a fascinating 1am discussion a few weeks back about the difference between being replicated (i.e. your brain is mapped and 'downloaded' onto a carbon copy of yourself) and actual prolonged life (say, through a brain transplant). My point was that, for your friends and family, the former option would be greatif you'd died, it would be like you'd just woken up after a short sleep, and you'd go on living life as a normal human being with all of your past memories and personality traits intactbut for you, it'd be a terrible option because you wouldn't get to experience it. Any thoughts, Stui? 
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | Interesting (though he possibly overestimates how near this technology is to being realised).
Lola and I had a fascinating 1am discussion a few weeks back about the difference between being replicated (i.e. your brain is mapped and 'downloaded' onto a carbon copy of yourself) and actual prolonged life (say, through a brain transplant). My point was that, for your friends and family, the former option would be greatif you'd died, it would be like you'd just woken up after a short sleep, and you'd go on living life as a normal human being with all of your past memories and personality traits intactbut for you, it'd be a terrible option because you wouldn't get to experience it. Any thoughts, Stui? |
I'm not sure why it would be a terrible option and I'm not sure I see the difference between being downloaded to a carbon copy and the brain transplant. In either case, the original body is gone but all the past memories were still there, because they had been achieved. If the memory or doing stuff was real to the brain, then it was real.
For mine the prolonging life is more about, like Adams suggests, replacing bits of the body (including organs) with technology or using drugs that keep regenerating the existing one like Wolverine in the Xmen.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | I'm not sure why it would be a terrible option and I'm not sure I see the difference between being downloaded to a carbon copy and the brain transplant. In either case, the original body is gone but all the past memories were still there, because they had been achieved. If the memory or doing stuff was real to the brain, then it was real. |
My point was this: for Stui Mark II, it would be perfectly fine. In factand here we go into truly head-spinning sci-fi territorythis exact process could have happened to you last night, theoretically. You are Stui, for all intents and purposes. But what if, as part of the process, Stui Mark I gets disintegrated? That Stuithe real onenever gets to experience being Stui Mark II. He's dead. Even though there's a carbon copy Stui walking around who doesn't know any different, the original Stui was terminated last night.
That's why, if it's eternal life we want, that would make for a profoundly unsatisfying option. It'd be good for other people who want a Stui around until the end of days, or a resurrected loved one, or a real Albert Einstein they can talk to, and for those replicants (however long they're kept alive for) things are pretty good too. But for the actual original people, their consciousness is over.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | I'm not sure why it would be a terrible option and I'm not sure I see the difference between being downloaded to a carbon copy and the brain transplant. In either case, the original body is gone but all the past memories were still there, because they had been achieved. If the memory or doing stuff was real to the brain, then it was real. |
My point was this: for Stui Mark II, it would be perfectly fine. In factand here we go into truly head-spinning sci-fi territorythis exact process could have happened to you last night, theoretically. You are Stui, for all intents and purposes. But what if, as part of the process, Stui Mark I gets disintegrated? That Stuithe real onenever gets to experience being Stui Mark II. He's dead. Even though there's a carbon copy Stui walking around who doesn't know any different, the original Stui was terminated last night.
That's why, if it's eternal life we want, that would make for a profoundly unsatisfying option. It'd be good for other people who want a Stui around until the end of days, or a resurrected loved one, or a real Albert Einstein they can talk to, and for those replicants (however long they're kept alive for) things are pretty good too. But for the actual original people, their consciousness is over. |
See, the way I see it Stui Mk 1 DOES get to experience it. My consciousness has all the memories of everything I ever did, I knew how the old worn out meat suit I used to wear felt and I know how the new model feels. For me the suit of skin is just like getting a new car. The driver is the same, I can remember exactly what the old car felt like and enjoy the new one. What made Stui Mk 1 wasn't the meat suit it was the consciousness , that bit that you could transfer.
Spinning sideways a bit, what did you think about Scott's idea of us all actually just being a computer program that thinks it's real?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | See, the way I see it Stui Mk 1 DOES get to experience it. My consciousness has all the memories of everything I ever did, I knew how the old worn out meat suit I used to wear felt and I know how the new model feels. For me the suit of skin is just like getting a new car. The driver is the same, I can remember exactly what the old car felt like and enjoy the new one. What made Stui Mk 1 wasn't the meat suit it was the consciousness , that bit that you could transfer. |
Yes, but I already agree with all that! The distinction I'm making here is between, say, cutting/pasting a file on your computer and copying/pasting it.
Another computer-related analogy: say you're writing a word document and you email your friend a copy. That copy has all the data that the original had (to go back to your analogy, all the specific aspects of your consciousness), but if your friend makes changes to the copy, they're not going to be reflected in the original file. You might well choose to permanently delete the original file because you don't need it any more. Now, if you can imagine how that original file would experience this sequence of events if it had consciousness, that's pretty much the point I'm trying to make here.
(of course, a transplant, in which your current brain gets placed inside some other body, would be a different matter. There, you could quite feasibly have continuous experience. I guess I'm just pointing out the difference between that and a form of cloning.)
Edit: I also realise that my term "downloaded" could have been a little ambiguous. So perhaps we've been on the same page all along.
| stui magpie wrote: | | Spinning sideways a bit, what did you think about Scott's idea of us all actually just being a computer program that thinks it's real? |
I think it's a bit like "what if this is all a dream?" or "what if this is all just someone else's dream?"totally hypothetically possible and probably impossible to disprove, but impractical because it doesn't help us understand anything about the world.
Having said that, I was a little confused by this assertion:
| Scott Adams wrote: | | Such a program a digital mind if you will could live in an entirely artificial reality and experience what seems to be a genuine human life for the rest of eternity, or at least as long as the software keeps running. The freaky part is that if such a thing will someday be possible and I think it will then it follows that the time after it happens will be infinitely long whereas the history of time before it happens is finite. So it follows that there is an infinitely greater chance you are already the simulation and not a human who is reading this paragraph and contemplating it. Weird. |
I think the bit here about there being a "greater" chance that I am a simulation than a human is something of a logic trick (though he's probably being somewhat facetious anyway). It goes something like: there is x number of possible entities who could be experiencing a consciousness like yours at this moment, and they are split between actual people and simulations. Because, as technology develops, simulations (or sub-simulations) will eventually vastly outnumber actual human consciousnesses, and that those simulations will probably simulate a reality a lot like what you're experiencing now, there's (say, to make up a figure) a 90% chance that you are one of the simulations from the future.
There's probably a subtle logical trick in there, or, I dunno, maybe it's true. What do you think? (Keep in mind, I'm the person who got stumped by that Monty Hall three-door problem, so I don't expect to work this one out in a hurry!)
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | Interesting (though he possibly overestimates how near this technology is to being realised).
Lola and I had a fascinating 1am discussion a few weeks back about the difference between being replicated (i.e. your brain is mapped and 'downloaded' onto a carbon copy of yourself) and actual prolonged life (say, through a brain transplant). My point was that, for your friends and family, the former option would be greatif you'd died, it would be like you'd just woken up after a short sleep, and you'd go on living life as a normal human being with all of your past memories and personality traits intactbut for you, it'd be a terrible option because you wouldn't get to experience it. Any thoughts, Stui? |
I'm not sure why it would be a terrible option and I'm not sure I see the difference between being downloaded to a carbon copy and the brain transplant. In either case, the original body is gone but all the past memories were still there, because they had been achieved. If the memory or doing stuff was real to the brain, then it was real.
For mine the prolonging life is more about, like Adams suggests, replacing bits of the body (including organs) with technology or using drugs that keep regenerating the existing one like Wolverine in the Xmen. |
I wouldn't mind being a xwoman
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: |
Having said that, I was a little confused by this assertion:
| Scott Adams wrote: | | Such a program a digital mind if you will could live in an entirely artificial reality and experience what seems to be a genuine human life for the rest of eternity, or at least as long as the software keeps running. The freaky part is that if such a thing will someday be possible and I think it will then it follows that the time after it happens will be infinitely long whereas the history of time before it happens is finite. So it follows that there is an infinitely greater chance you are already the simulation and not a human who is reading this paragraph and contemplating it. Weird. |
I think the bit here about there being a "greater" chance that I am a simulation than a human is something of a logic trick (though he's probably being somewhat facetious anyway). It goes something like: there is x number of possible entities who could be experiencing a consciousness like yours at this moment, and they are split between actual people and simulations. Because, as technology develops, simulations (or sub-simulations) will eventually vastly outnumber actual human consciousnesses, and that those simulations will probably simulate a reality a lot like what you're experiencing now, there's (say, to make up a figure) a 90% chance that you are one of the simulations from the future.
There's probably a subtle logical trick in there, or, I dunno, maybe it's true. What do you think? (Keep in mind, I'm the person who got stumped by that Monty Hall three-door problem, so I don't expect to work this one out in a hurry!) |
Hah,
The way I interpret and understand it is this:
If you accept the premise that it's possible for it to happen one point in the future, there's a very high probability that it's already happened and we are the simulation. For me, it's about frame of reference, we only have knowledge of where the human race and the earth has come from. But if everything we know is just part of the design of the simulation, we would someday progress to the point where we would then create a simulation too. Maybe the people who created the simulation that we currently live in were just a simulation created by someone else before that, so we're actually living in a simulation of a simulation. We're all nothing but virtual code.
Does your brain hurt yet?
And yeah Jo. I can see you in the black leather outfit. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Ahhh, I see. So almost more like an eternal rabbit hole of simulations.
Now I've considered that for a moment, my conclusion is I don't want to think about it any more.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
