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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | | I reckon you can change the name of the religion to any, religion itself doesn't cause wars, people use it as an excuse for evil deeds and power hunts |
Actually, it does cause wars. Lots of them. Which shouldn't surprise anyone really - after all, the raison d'etre of religion is the unreasoned support of irrational ideas, and then the raising up of these irrational ideas so that they have the status of established, unquestioned fact, which can then be used as a bludgeon to exterminate other ideas and other people. That's how wars work too. Same thing, really.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | I reckon you can change the name of the religion to any, religion itself doesn't cause wars, people use it as an excuse for evil deeds and power hunts |
Actually, it does cause wars. Lots of them. Which shouldn't surprise anyone really - after all, the raison d'etre of religion is the unreasoned support of irrational ideas, and then the raising up of these irrational ideas so that they have the status of established, unquestioned fact, which can then be used as a bludgeon to exterminate other ideas and other people. That's how wars work too. Same thing, really. |
I don't agree, as I don't agree with guns kill: people with guns kill
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ But I thought you were anti-gun? 
The whole "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" line is a good example of how causal arguments can be manipulated. A bit like "religion does not cause wars". Or "alcohol does not cause violence", for that matter.
Obviously a gun can't kill anyone without a person to fire it, but then many of those people wouldn't be able to kill if they didn't have a gun. Both are causal factors, but guns aren't really good for much more than killing, and banning guns is a lot easier than banning people. 
Religion's the same. We'd certainly have less sectarian violence without religion, but it can hardly be said to be the sole factor behind any war (and there are many wars in which it hardly plays a role at all). It certainly can be a cause of violence, but a more interesting question might be whether or not it's a primary cause.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | ^ But I thought you were anti-gun?
The whole "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" line is a good example of how causal arguments can be manipulated. A bit like "religion does not cause wars". Or "alcohol does not cause violence", for that matter.
Obviously a gun can't kill anyone without a person to fire it, but then many of those people wouldn't be able to kill if they didn't have a gun. Both are causal factors, but guns aren't really good for much more than killing, and banning guns is a lot easier than banning people.
Religion's the same. We'd certainly have less sectarian violence without religion, but it can hardly be said to be the sole factor behind any war (and there are many wars in which it hardly plays a role at all). It certainly can be a cause of violence, but a more interesting question might be whether or not it's a primary cause. |
I am anti gun.
men will find any bloody thing to fight about. they use the differences within religious teachings to play one up. its all about power.
from what ive read or heard about, Budha, God, Jesus and Allah, all preach peace and harmony, its mortal folk twisting the words.
I wonder how many terrorists try to get in the pearly gates with the line "I killed in your name" im guessing the gates stay shut.
and alcohol only gave my dad an excuse to act out the way he wanted to, like a spoilt brat, a violent one at that! we don't all do a jeckle and hyde when we imbibe!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | from what ive read or heard about, Budha, God, Jesus and Allah, all preach peace and harmony, its mortal folk twisting the words. |
Not exactly. I don't know about Buddhism, but the Bible and the Koran are full of barbaric acts. Sure, they preach peace as well, but you could pull out any number of verses from both that quite clearly support killing and genocide. It's certainly not just a case of corrupt humans misrepresenting holy words here.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | | from what ive read or heard about, Budha, God, Jesus and Allah, all preach peace and harmony, its mortal folk twisting the words. |
Pfft: Matthew 10:34
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Maybe we should blow the whole $£$%^%%$ god forsaken, Breathen heathen place up and start again
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | from what ive read or heard about, Budha, God, Jesus and Allah, all preach peace and harmony, its mortal folk twisting the words. |
Pfft: Matthew 10:34 |
Wrong context!
Dont just read words. You are smarter than this. I would explain but you already know everything so why bother 
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" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
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laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
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| think positive wrote: | | Maybe we should blow the whole $£$%^%%$ god forsaken, Breathen heathen place up and start again |
Maybe time for a wine 
_________________
" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Thanks for posting that article Jac, I read that this morning. It's not behind a paywall if you go to News.com.au
The part I found most instructive was this bit.
| Quote: | | But Islamism is not Islam. Islamism is the politicisation of Islam, the desire to impose a version of this ancient faith over society. To achieve this, Islamism uses political grievances, such as mine, to alienate and then provide an alternative sense of belonging to vulnerable young Muslims. Preying on the grievances of disaffected young men is the bedrock of Islamism. |
This pretty much correlates with what I've been saying for ages, it's not islam that's at fault it's those who want to twist it with the aim to taking over the world.
Very interesting potential link with the young guys who did the bombing at the Boston Marathon and agree with WPT that it's disturbing if it's something that's being permitted to be fostered in Australia, although there's an argument that's it's easier to keep an eye on something if it's out in the open as opposed to buried underground.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| laird wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | Pfft: Matthew 10:34 |
Wrong context!
Dont just read words. You are smarter than this. |
Quite right, of course. And yes, I knew that when I posted it.  Did I deliberately post it anyway with tongue-in-cheek? Or was I just too lazy to hunt down a more appropriate quote? Well, a bit of both. I sort-of-intended to write a carefully detailed second post fleshing out my contention that religion often leads to war and providing evidence, but (as usual with my days) it's one of about 20 things I want to get done before I go to bed and it'll take an hour I haven't got and David is the only one who will read it carefully all the way through in any case, so why bother?
Life is too short!
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
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| Tannin wrote: | | laird wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | Pfft: Matthew 10:34 |
Wrong context!
Dont just read words. You are smarter than this. |
Quite right, of course. And yes, I knew that when I posted it. Did I deliberately post it anyway with tongue-in-cheek? Or was I just too lazy to hunt down a more appropriate quote? Well, a bit of both. I sort-of-intended to write a carefully detailed second post fleshing out my contention that religion often leads to war and providing evidence, but (as usual with my days) it's one of about 20 things I want to get done before I go to bed and it'll take an hour I haven't got and David is the only one who will read it carefully all the way through in any case, so why bother?
Life is too short! |
Mate, save your time, I for one agree totally. No question.
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" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I took your advice, the wine is really making my cold meds work faster/effectively cheers! I'm still dying though
Ugh I am not a good sick person
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | Maybe we should blow the whole $£$%^%%$ god forsaken, Breathen heathen place up and start again |
What, the world?
I think that might be an instance of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Oh. I thought she meant Frankston.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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