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perthmagpie 
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga
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When we get a bunch of clever players back it will look better up forward: Elliott, Varcoe, Sidebottom, Broomhead and also the marking of Howe. I worry we can kick enough goals tomorrow with our slow, makeshift forward line.
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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^^Yep, I don't have a major problem with our overall forward options. We lack genuine, quick smalls which is a problem, but we have quality mediums (or smalls who play as mediums). The talls are again a bit of a concern, we have one quality tall in Cloke, then there's the promising Moore and other options that are not yet proven.
It's our weakest line but not too bad and can develop over the season.
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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So, looking to the future, Fasolo, Moore and Cloke are competent forwards. Blair was ineffectual, Gault/Grundy in the forward pocket didn't work (and, frankly, Gault didn't look up to the standard, for the second week in a row).
85 points on the back off a career-best game from Fasolo. Howe obviously gets a chance as soon a he's fit but - and I mean this in all seriousness - does Jesse White get back in as forward-pocket ruck?
There is a real problem holding the ball in the forward line when it hits the ground. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| At the conclusion of round 2, 2016, we have scored fewer points than all but 3 teams (Fremantle, Essendon and St Kilda). That we aren't the worst is not particularly comforting, given that if Brodie Grundy's last kick had been touched, we would be occupying the lowest position on this particular ranking. Thus, we are 4 points ahead of the lowest scoring team but 124 points behind the highest scoring team (Sydney). This is, no doubt, a function, in part of the complete flogging we suffered at the hands of Sydney in round 1 - but I observe that Carlton has played the same two teams as us and, despite losing to both, has kicked 14 more points. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | At the conclusion of round 2, 2016, we have scored fewer points than all but 3 teams (Fremantle, Essendon and St Kilda). That we aren't the worst is not particularly comforting, given that if Brodie Grundy's last kick had been touched, we would be occupying the lowest position on this particular ranking. Thus, we are 4 points ahead of the lowest scoring team but 124 points behind the highest scoring team (Sydney). This is, no doubt, a function, in part of the complete flogging we suffered at the hands of Sydney in round 1 - but I observe that Carlton has played the same two teams as us and, despite losing to both, has kicked 14 more points. |
Points scored just a tad skewed by the R1 flogging. We'll have a better idea by R6-10 when hopefully all of Varcoe, Sidebottom, Howe, Broomhead and Elliott are available. Add the lose of Swan and that is a lot of scoring power sitting in the stands. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Fasolo will be our full forward this year because he is a natural, instinctive, goal hungry player who demands the ball. He can also move well, take high marks and kick goals. In any case, he's a Collingwood 6 footer. The talls will be Cloke and Moore, who should continue to improve. When back from suspension I'd play Sidey mainly as a forward, in the role originally earmarked for Swanny. Goldsack might prove to be a great 3rd 'tall' who, if nothing else, will help keep the ball in our forward line. Who knows, maybe Mason Cox will add something different as well in a few weeks. Hopefully the middle of the season will see Elliott slot back in as we build for a genuine finals campaign. So basically, there's every reason to expect our forward line to get better as the season progresses. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | At the conclusion of round 2, 2016, we have scored fewer points than all but 3 teams (Fremantle, Essendon and St Kilda). That we aren't the worst is not particularly comforting, given that if Brodie Grundy's last kick had been touched, we would be occupying the lowest position on this particular ranking. Thus, we are 4 points ahead of the lowest scoring team but 124 points behind the highest scoring team (Sydney). This is, no doubt, a function, in part of the complete flogging we suffered at the hands of Sydney in round 1 - but I observe that Carlton has played the same two teams as us and, despite losing to both, has kicked 14 more points. |
That's because we haven't played ourselves.   |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | At the conclusion of round 2, 2016, we have scored fewer points than all but 3 teams (Fremantle, Essendon and St Kilda). That we aren't the worst is not particularly comforting, given that if Brodie Grundy's last kick had been touched, we would be occupying the lowest position on this particular ranking. Thus, we are 4 points ahead of the lowest scoring team but 124 points behind the highest scoring team (Sydney). This is, no doubt, a function, in part of the complete flogging we suffered at the hands of Sydney in round 1 - but I observe that Carlton has played the same two teams as us and, despite losing to both, has kicked 14 more points. |
Far too early to be going with comparative team stats, they're all worthless right now.
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Well done boys! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Well, no they aren't - I'm not using them in an attempt to prove some point about the immutable incompetence of our forward-line but rather to illustrate that. so far, we haven't kicked an adequate score. They reflect something that was fairly obvious watching both the games so far, namely that even when we brought the ball into the forward line quickly and decisively, there was a general problem translating an inside 50 into a score. Sometimes a poor ratio of scores to inside 50s may be explained by the poor quality of the delivery from the middle of the park but there were several occasions in the first quarter of the Richmond game where I found myself trying to put bamboo slivers under my eyelids as the forwards fluffed some great delivery.
Since it's obvious to me that the present forward line is incapable of kicking a winning score every week (Fasolo played a blinder against Richmond and we still had to get substantial help from the umpires to break the 10-goal mark in the dying moments of that game), it's an issue worth investigating. Even if the gameplan were flawless and head and shoulders clear as the best in the AFL, I suspect nothing much would be different on the scoreboard because we just don't have enough players in the team who can kick enough goals. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| jackcass wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | At the conclusion of round 2, 2016, we have scored fewer points than all but 3 teams (Fremantle, Essendon and St Kilda). That we aren't the worst is not particularly comforting, given that if Brodie Grundy's last kick had been touched, we would be occupying the lowest position on this particular ranking. Thus, we are 4 points ahead of the lowest scoring team but 124 points behind the highest scoring team (Sydney). This is, no doubt, a function, in part of the complete flogging we suffered at the hands of Sydney in round 1 - but I observe that Carlton has played the same two teams as us and, despite losing to both, has kicked 14 more points. |
Points scored just a tad skewed by the R1 flogging. We'll have a better idea by R6-10 when hopefully all of Varcoe, Sidebottom, Howe, Broomhead and Elliott are available. Add the lose of Swan and that is a lot of scoring power sitting in the stands. |
I take your point about the "outs" but it appears that the Club intends to play Sidey and Varcoe further up the field, rather than as forwards, Swan almost certainly isn't going to play again this year, Elliott's good for 2 goals per game, provided he is relatively injury-free and it remains to be seen when that will be and Broomhead's a good option (provided he isn't still too slight for senior footy). Which, in the short-term (that is, between now and rounds 6-10, by which time it may not matter whether we get out preferred forwards back, if we're not troubling the scorers often enough in the forthcoming weeks), leaves us, realistically with a choice of adding, say White, Cox, Howe, Goodyear, Goldsack (and maybe Broomhead - I don't know what his progress is but he isn't playing VFL, yet) into the forward-line or, perhaps, bringing Reid (who is, after all, both our best CHB and also our best goal-kicker after Cloke) back up to the forward half.
So what do we do, now? True, we get Varcoe probably this week and Sidebottom cetainly next week - but if they're going to play wing and half-back, as appears likely, that's not going to improve the quality of the forward-line (though I accept that it will, of course, improve the quality of the delivery to the forwards). |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Fasolo will be our full forward this year because he is a natural, instinctive, goal hungry player who demands the ball. He can also move well, take high marks and kick goals. In any case, he's a Collingwood 6 footer. The talls will be Cloke and Moore, who should continue to improve. When back from suspension I'd play Sidey mainly as a forward, in the role originally earmarked for Swanny. Goldsack might prove to be a great 3rd 'tall' who, if nothing else, will help keep the ball in our forward line. Who knows, maybe Mason Cox will add something different as well in a few weeks. Hopefully the middle of the season will see Elliott slot back in as we build for a genuine finals campaign. So basically, there's every reason to expect our forward line to get better as the season progresses. |
So, this week Cloke, Fasolo and Moore are givens. Blair, presumably, stays, although he's not consistently a goal-kicker of any significance and we probably rest a midfielder on a flank or in a pocket in the "Swan" position(I'm not sure who this week -but maybe Pendlebury if he's still too sore to run the midfield, Sidey next week). Varcoe probably plays half-back or wing. So that leaves one spot - in essence, for the "third-tall"/resting ruck. On the assumption that we are selecting a team to win the game, rather than for development, do we go with Howe, Gault, White, Cox, Goldsack, Goodyear, Witts?
Is it:
Resting mid/Cloke/Howe
Blair/Fasolo/Moore?
I don't really know - that doesn't inspire me much (and replacing Howe with one of the alternatives doesn't much alter my lack of enthusiasm) but I can't see too many significant improvement options in the short-term. |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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Howe will fill the Swan position imo.
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Get back on top. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^^^ So you mean:
Blair/Cloke/Howe
"Third tall"/Fasolo/Moore?
Or were you adopting the uninspiring line-up I proffered (It's not a trick question, I just want to understand how you see the forward line being manned)? |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | At the conclusion of round 2, 2016, we have scored fewer points than all but 3 teams (Fremantle, Essendon and St Kilda). That we aren't the worst is not particularly comforting, given that if Brodie Grundy's last kick had been touched, we would be occupying the lowest position on this particular ranking. Thus, we are 4 points ahead of the lowest scoring team but 124 points behind the highest scoring team (Sydney). This is, no doubt, a function, in part of the complete flogging we suffered at the hands of Sydney in round 1 - but I observe that Carlton has played the same two teams as us and, despite losing to both, has kicked 14 more points. |
Points scored just a tad skewed by the R1 flogging. We'll have a better idea by R6-10 when hopefully all of Varcoe, Sidebottom, Howe, Broomhead and Elliott are available. Add the lose of Swan and that is a lot of scoring power sitting in the stands. |
I take your point about the "outs" but it appears that the Club intends to play Sidey and Varcoe further up the field, rather than as forwards, Swan almost certainly isn't going to play again this year, Elliott's good for 2 goals per game, provided he is relatively injury-free and it remains to be seen when that will be and Broomhead's a good option (provided he isn't still too slight for senior footy). Which, in the short-term (that is, between now and rounds 6-10, by which time it may not matter whether we get out preferred forwards back, if we're not troubling the scorers often enough in the forthcoming weeks), leaves us, realistically with a choice of adding, say White, Cox, Howe, Goodyear, Goldsack (and maybe Broomhead - I don't know what his progress is but he isn't playing VFL, yet) into the forward-line or, perhaps, bringing Reid (who is, after all, both our best CHB and also our best goal-kicker after Cloke) back up to the forward half.
So what do we do, now? True, we get Varcoe probably this week and Sidebottom cetainly next week - but if they're going to play wing and half-back, as appears likely, that's not going to improve the quality of the forward-line (though I accept that it will, of course, improve the quality of the delivery to the forwards). |
I'm not as concerned about our defense or our forwards. Get the midfield functioning and I think we'll see improvement in both the areas. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | ^^^ So you mean:
Blair/Cloke/Howe
"Third tall"/Fasolo/Moore?
Or were you adopting the uninspiring line-up I proffered (It's not a trick question, I just want to understand how you see the forward line being manned)? |
Yeah I guess so though perhaps
Goldsack Cloke Howe
Blair Moore Fasolo
might give us some grunt up forward. You could alternate Goldsack and Blair perhaps but probably Gault needs one more go.
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