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War with Iran?

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:00 pm
Post subject: War with Iran?Reply with quote

I haven’t been paying attention to this – mostly in the irrational hope that if I ignore it, it’ll go away – but there’s very real indication that the US might be preparing for a war with Iran.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-25/donald-trump-us-deploys-more-troops-to-middle-east-iran-tensions/11149442

Words cannot describe the contempt I feel for anyone who would support such a manoeuvre in the wake of the Iraq catastrophe, and in the full knowledge of the barbarity, cruelty and unimaginable suffering that war brings. I can see it already: the lazy half-justifications; the craven, enthusiastic support of the Morrison government; the futile protests; the ever-mounting death toll; the destruction of infrastructure, libraries, museums; the Abu Ghraib-like torture of prisoners. And all for what? So Trump can satisfy his ego by getting to be a wartime president? So the Saudis get to enjoy an unchallenged hegemony in the Middle East? So arms dealers and oil companies can get rich? It’s all just so demoralising.

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:55 pm
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It would be a disgusting move - but “brilliant” domestic politics. The US is full of losers who still want payback for Khomeini.
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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:57 pm
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Trump can kiss his 2020 election prospects goodbye if he ever decided to invade Iran.
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swoop42 Virgo

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Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:08 pm
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Time for another Republican President to start another illegitimate war I see.

The true puppet masters of the United States is the American war machine and their arms suppliers.

Nothing like a good war to see the revenue flow and their stock prices rise.

Let's make some money people.

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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:25 pm
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^ Both Democrats (liberal interventionists) and Republicans (neocons) have started or supported illegitimate wars for decades.

However, is there any real sign that war is imminent or are we panicking for nothing?

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:57 pm
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Why would we panic? Subject to unanticipated tectonic plate movement, we’re not in the strike zone.
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swoop42 Virgo

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Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:13 pm
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Amazing how America is always so interested in the internal politics of countries with rich oil reserves.

Kuwait, Iraq, Venezuela and now Iran.

I fully accept Iran is no beacon for democracy or human rights and no doubt sponsors terrorism and proxy wars in other mainly Middle Eastern countries but that is absolutely no different to US backed Saudi Arabia.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:43 pm
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It must have been difficult for the arms industry to be heard over all the evangelical extremists requesting payback:

Trump approves $8bn Saudi weapons sale over Iran tensions
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-48404923

We finally get to see Trump's foreign policy beyond photo ops with Kim Jong-un: a full embrace of George W's neoconservatism. That should work wonders in tandem with his trade war and undermining of Europe.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:56 pm
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Jezza wrote:
^ Both Democrats (liberal interventionists) and Republicans (neocons) have started or supported illegitimate wars for decades.

However, is there any real sign that war is imminent or are we panicking for nothing?


It's hard to say. Trump's military build-up is undeniably an escalation of tensions, and a risky one at that, but beyond that I'm finding it hard to separate facts from embellishments on this. What worries me most is that there are people in the US administration – not necessarily Trump himself – who want a war and will be pushing for it all they can.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:07 pm
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^There's only ever one thing Trump wants: self glorification. But don't for a minute think that makes him independent. Most of his glory comes from sycophants singing his praises, and they want payback or they'll pull the plug on the fawning.

With evangelicals, neocons, beloved Saudi billionaires, the Israeli far right, and the monstrous war industry circling, it would barely take a hate speech and a doctored video to make his vote fall into line. Give them 30 seconds and they'll be justifying the back flip.

The vast majority of Republicans voted for George W. twice, and despite the tiny fraction of Trump voters pretending to be independent, they're pretty much the same people.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:34 pm
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When Trump's pretty much the only voice of reason in his own administration, you know things have gotten pretty bad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/21/united-airlines-halts-some-flights-mumbai-to-avoid-iran-after-drone-attack

Bolton and Pompeo are psychopaths and need to be stopped at any cost. Thank god for Trump's isolationist leanings, but I still worry that he's much too easily led. So far, this Iran sabre-rattling from the US has been a complete circus – it'd be hilarious if there weren't so many lives (totally pointlessly) at stake.

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:18 pm
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Trump asked how many casualties were expected, when he was told 150 he called it off saying it was disproportionate to the loss of an unmanned drone. Hate the man all you like, but at least he's a man with a conscience and a respect for human life.
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:50 pm
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^ I think, when it comes to foreign intervention, he's actually refreshingly cautious (especially compared to many previous US presidents from either side of the aisle). But we're still left with the fact that he didn't veto the attack when the idea was first raised, but rather when the planes were already on their way. That's alarming, and suggests either that Bolton and Pompeo are the ones running the show or Trump himself doesn't have any particular strategy from one day to the next. Don't get me wrong – we should all be hugely relieved that he changed his mind at the last minute and didn't go ahead with the attack to save face, or whatever. But how confident can we be that the right decision will be made next time?

I'm glad that he wanted to avoid unnecessary casualties – that would make him a great deal more principled than many in his administration. But let's not forget that the total casualties that will be caused by not starting a pointless and unnecessary war with Iran is 0. Anything more than that is unacceptable.

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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:16 pm
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Bolton is a psychopathic idiot that Trump should sack immediately. The man is interested in endless wars and does the bidding of the deep state.

Trump doesn't have neocon tendencies, but like David, I do worry about the influence Bolton and Pompeo have in his administration.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:43 pm
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Wokko wrote:
Trump asked how many casualties were expected, when he was told 150 he called it off saying it was disproportionate to the loss of an unmanned drone. Hate the man all you like, but at least he's a man with a conscience and a respect for human life.

Yes, the creep inciting violent racism, dangerously rattling the global economy, meddling in international deals he doesn't understand, putting psychopaths like Bolton and unqualified relatives like Kushner in serious positions of national power, picking favourite terrorist sponsors and selling arms to them, failing to protect the nation from foreign electoral interference, refusing to be subject to the norms of financial disclosure, stripping environmental protections, interfering in central bank processes, arbitrarily punishing companies by manipulating stock prices through public comment, worsening social stability by handing out massive tax cuts to the wealthy even as he weakens healthcare, and on record telling thousands of lies has a conscience.

I think you mean Captain Bone Spurs told you on Twitter that he's a hero who saved 150 lives and you swallowed it uncritically.

The only 'credibility' this dangerous narcissist had was that he wasn't the American establishment, previously represented by insiders like George W. But he no longer even has this going for him; not only did it take him five minutes to get into bed with Bush neocons like Bolton, it is his mastery of stoking hatred and manipulating the news cycle that provides cover for the usual range of nutcase Republicans – from Bolton and Pompeo to the healthcare deprivers and the 1950s evangelical abortion interferers.

He's clearly playing reality TV with people's lives as he always does: saying contradictory nonsense, testing people's reactions, and making up ad hoc explanations as he tries to work the news cycle to his advantage. If you think a grandiose narcissist like Trump would let the lives of 150 Iranians he is already screwing into the dirt with futile sanctions get in the way of a good news cycle, you're prone to believing anything.

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Last edited by pietillidie on Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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