Things that make you go.......WTF?

[David]

Ah, sorry about that! I haven't been ignoring you, just wanted a chance to sit down and give it a proper response.

Basically, I don't think your hypothetical can be achieved, because fewer working hours will mean job losses � and that seems to be the biggest concern with automation; that we will end up with massive unemployment rates.

There are two questions raised in your post: a) whether this premise is actually true or not, and b) what to do if it is. On a), I can only say that it seems to be something that a lot of tech experts are taking quite seriously, and their reasoning seems plausible enough. Let's consider driverless cars, which are apparently going to be 25% of the vehicles on the road in ten years' time: that's going to mean a lot of taxi drivers are out of a job. Where will these people go? Where are all the vacant jobs waiting? Sure, we'll need people to look after the driverless cars systems, but there aren't going to be nearly as many jobs there as there were taxi drivers, and many drivers wouldn't be qualified for that kind of work anyway.

You can substitute cars for all the other fields that will be increasingly automated in the years to come. Shopping centre checkout workers, editors, translators... these jobs are all going and not coming back. Where will all the new jobs appear from to replace them?

Of course we've seen periods of rapid technological change before, but the hypothesis seems to be that this is different; that things are accelerating at a much faster pace than they ever were before. I'm just restating what many others have said.

If we accept that this is going to happen � at least for the sake of the argument � then our second problem is, how do we maintain a functional society with fewer overall working hours available?

So let's consider your hypothetical business. Functions A and B (say, working the till and producing certain materials) are no longer required, so it either employs fewer people or employs the same amount of people working reduced hours. This may be good news for the company as it can save on employment costs, but it's a problem for society because � unless employees get a pay rise to make up for the loss of working hours � it now has to deal with a lot more people who are not working enough or not working at all. So, to me, it's a problem with a range of fairly logical solutions: either the government supplements people's wages to make up for lost income, or a shorter work week is achieved through collective bargaining and the company pays employees the same for working less (thus rendering their net profit/loss for cutting available work hours negligible).

I'm not saying that that's a pleasant scenario for a business to contemplate or that there won't be teething pains along the way (some of which may include a dramatic increase in poverty before the government or FWC is forced to act). The point is, if the automation crisis is going to occur, as many think it will, then something will have to give. A four day work week may be one solution � and if it isn't, what seems certain is that we'll need to think out of the box in one way or another.

[Mugwump]

It's always pretty ropey to make predictions, especially about situations which are historically novel. In truth, we do no know what the future holds as a result of this phase of technological evolution. However, I think this is an area where binary thinking is a bit misleading, and a range of effects will interact and play out in various unpredictable ways.

What we do know is that Productivity improvement increases the rate of profit. The profit is then distributed in several ways -

1. Lower hours for workers (eg the 5 day week and steady improvement in working hours)
2. Higher pay for workers - I would happily see a rising minimum wage pegged in some way to the degree of mechanisation in the economy overall.
3. Lower prices for goods (giving profit back to the customer, who is - more often than not - an ordinary worker)
4. Increased consumption arising from (2), leading to an increase in employment
5. Dividends for shareholders (often our pension funds, making earlier retirement possible)
6. New jobs in building, programming, and maintaining the machines, which will be far more plentiful than before.

All of the above will tend to absorb labour which is freed up and deployed for new ideas and new uses - such as aged care, health care, product design, further education, research, nature conservation, etc.

I am not sure that we are anywhere near the end of the human need to consume. The problem may be whether relatively low-skilled workers can gain employment, and I suppose that will get harder - but there are lots of areas where needs remain unmet. I doubt the machines pose as much challenge to the low-skill worker as globalisation and mass immigration has.

Should there be a four day week ? I think that is a matter that the labour market can determine, but reduced hours will no doubt be part of the mix of effects.

[Pi]

He looks a bit like Chris Dawes but I suspect hes likely a member of or associated with an organization starting with M and ending in D. from a country who had a visiting PM to Australia a few weeks later.

http://www.watoday.com.au/victoria/mystery-gunman-walked-unchecked-in-bourke-street-mall-in-the-wake-of-massacre-20170321-gv2s4l.html

[Morrigu]

My friend's daughter is heavily pregnant with twins ( she has had 2 previous twin pregnancies both which ended in stillborn bubs )

Last night she went to the GP to get a script and was assaulted by a scumbag with a baseball bat in the clinic who stole her script and attempted to steal her bag - but had to drop it when he had to press an exit button to get out!

He knocked a woman coming into the clinic over - she is now in hospital with a #NOF.

Thankfully she dropped to the floor and protected her belly so his hits didn't damage her horribly or her babies.

This is apparently what these scumbags are now doing - they make an appointment and listen - the mention of " pain relief" provides their targets.

Cops were great apparently and there is CCTV so hopefully they get the scumbag - mind you he will probably get bail - hell he was probably already on bail

WTF just WTF!!!!

[think positive]

Omg that is so bloody disgusting, that's should be attempted murder, who the hell attacks a pregnant woman?

[HAL]

And so disgusting that's should be attempted murder who the hell attacks a pregnant woman is Omg that.

[stui magpie]

[luvdids]

OMG, what the hell is wrong with people??

Hope she's ok, and the babies. Geez she's had a tough run becoming a Mum! Fingers crossed for a healthy delivery.

I'd like to know how someone sits in a clinic waiting room 'hiding' a baseball bat though... what were the staff doing to not notice that?

The world's f**ked.

[stui magpie]

[Morrigu]

[luvdids]

[ronrat]

They should instruct all pharmacies that if this mongrel, otr presunably an accomplice, presents the script it should be filled with powerful laxatives and tranquilisers. 5 days of sleeping in his own crap and then arrest him. With extreme prejudice. After he showers and changes his clothes. I don't agree with USA gun laws but this is one example where if the culprit had his head blown off no one would care.

[HAL]

Why should they be instruct all pharmacies that if this mongrel otr presunably an accomplice presents the script it should be filled with powerful laxatives and tranquilisers?

[stui magpie]

[watt price tully]