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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Are you in Noosa at the moment? I didn't get up until 5. 
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Are you in Noosa at the moment? I didn't get up until 5. |
Ok that's weird, I'm sure the time on your posts were 4 something! I got up at 5.30 because junior was getting picked up by hubbies mate to go work on the seating for the Grand Prix and I thought I should say hello! Ugh tooo early!
On a side note I can't believe how much she's getting paid to stick stickers on seats! Thank the lord for penalty rates!
So why are you up at 5!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Ah, you mustn't have adjusted your profile to Daylight Savings Time.
I fell asleep really early last night, around 10 that was probably the main factor. Also, it's nice to have the house to yourself for a couple of hours before a certain toddler gets up. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | Ah, you mustn't have adjusted your profile to Daylight Savings Time.
I fell asleep really early last night, around 10 that was probably the main factor. Also, it's nice to have the house to yourself for a couple of hours before a certain toddler gets up. |
I get that!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | No, a typical millennial who can read and is aware that whatever the parallels to previous periods of mass automation and industrialisation this actually hasn't happened before, and that it is a topic currently under serious discussion by a great many experts in the area.
As for your remark about pay rates, there are of course many unknowns here but given the basic principle of greater production and fewer production costs (robots being cheaper than people to employ, naturally), I don't see it as necessarily out of the question that workers could be paid roughly the same amount they are now for less work. It's not rocket science: if, as many people think, the amount of work available for humans starts to dwindle, societies need to find a way to maintain a decent standard of living for its citizens. They'll either succeed by increasing hourly pay rates, reducing living costs, paying people for doing nothing, or (insert your solution here), or else things aren't going to be pretty.
But yeah, let's dismiss the Greens as a joke for considering such questions and return to discussing non-delusional topics like how Donald Trump is going to resurrect the coal industry. |
Touchy much? 
of course this has happened before. You don't think mechanisation hasn't been working through the manufacturing industry?
I started work as a white collar worker in 1985. No PC's on desks, no email, no mobile phones etc. You wanted to write toi someone, you hand wrote a letter on paper and gave it to a typist, who would give it back, typed, in a day or two. then you'd make the corrections, give it back (rinse and repeat until it was correct) then finally put it in the post. Instant messaging? Not quite.
phones were landlines with no messagebank or caller ID.
You don't reckon PC's and the associated software have had a massive impact on work in the white collar sector? Jobs that existed then don't exist now, jobs that didn't exist then exist now. Some of the new jobs are at a higher work value and attract higher remuneration, but they aren't the same jobs.
In customer service roles, the demand is for increased hours of access by customers, not reduced. In jobs with no cap on production, productivity improvements means getting more shit done in your 38 hour week not being able to reduce working hours. Jobs that produce consumables have a theoretical cap on production based on market share and that's consumer driven, so mechanisation and productivity improvements means the first things to go are the penalty shifts. Overtime, weekends and nights.
Also, mechanising work doesn't come free, there is a cost to that. The ROI payoff for mechanisation is that you reduce labour costs after the investment in mechanisation
So, if you think the idea holds water, I'll give you a challenge.
Describe a hypothetical situation where company A (lets make it a small family company employing less than 100 people rather than a large multinational) could mechanise function or functions B and achieve all of the following:
1. Zero job losses (people with no job)
2. Zero reductions in take home pay for any employees
3. Reduced hours of work for employees (your 4 day week)
4. Positive ROI. ie, increased profit
I really look forward to what you can come up with.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| What about a company in which the workers control the means of production? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Practical example?
I can think of situations where it could work, but they're limited and I want to see what David can come up with.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Prostitution
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | | Prostitution |
Please explain. Please.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| swoop42 wrote: | What's up with this weather?
It's turned to Summer in Autumn with continuous 30 degree days.
We could do with some rain. |
Average temperature has been warmer this month than it was in December, January and February.
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Lucky there's no such thing as man-made climate change or one might become concerned that one might see more of this in future years. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Prostitution |
Please explain. Please. |
It's the WTF thread and that's exactly wot you thought!
Well it's a self made profession!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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"Iran's supreme leader calls gender equality 'a Zionist conspiracy' "
[i].....Addressing a gathering of religious eulogists celebrating Iran's National Women's and Mothers' Day, Ayatollah Khamenei attacked the West's and Israel's ideas of women's rights and gender equality, claiming they undermine women's God-granted position as housewives....
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4937882,00.html
I thought the racist scumbag Dr Mahatir took the cake with his views that
"....Jews, said the Malaysian prime minister, had "invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy" to avoid persecution and gain control of the most powerful countries...."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3196234.stm
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I think I speak for most on here when I say I look forward to the day Iran jettisons the Ayatollah and his kind and leaves them to preach in a mosque where they belong far away from the levers of government. It'll take a lot of political courage to do so, but I get the sense that the appetite is there. Leaders like Rouhani give me hope for the future of the country, but there will need to be more like him.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | No, a typical millennial who can read and is aware that whatever the parallels to previous periods of mass automation and industrialisation this actually hasn't happened before, and that it is a topic currently under serious discussion by a great many experts in the area.
As for your remark about pay rates, there are of course many unknowns here but given the basic principle of greater production and fewer production costs (robots being cheaper than people to employ, naturally), I don't see it as necessarily out of the question that workers could be paid roughly the same amount they are now for less work. It's not rocket science: if, as many people think, the amount of work available for humans starts to dwindle, societies need to find a way to maintain a decent standard of living for its citizens. They'll either succeed by increasing hourly pay rates, reducing living costs, paying people for doing nothing, or (insert your solution here), or else things aren't going to be pretty.
But yeah, let's dismiss the Greens as a joke for considering such questions and return to discussing non-delusional topics like how Donald Trump is going to resurrect the coal industry. |
Touchy much?
of course this has happened before. You don't think mechanisation hasn't been working through the manufacturing industry?
I started work as a white collar worker in 1985. No PC's on desks, no email, no mobile phones etc. You wanted to write toi someone, you hand wrote a letter on paper and gave it to a typist, who would give it back, typed, in a day or two. then you'd make the corrections, give it back (rinse and repeat until it was correct) then finally put it in the post. Instant messaging? Not quite.
phones were landlines with no messagebank or caller ID.
You don't reckon PC's and the associated software have had a massive impact on work in the white collar sector? Jobs that existed then don't exist now, jobs that didn't exist then exist now. Some of the new jobs are at a higher work value and attract higher remuneration, but they aren't the same jobs.
In customer service roles, the demand is for increased hours of access by customers, not reduced. In jobs with no cap on production, productivity improvements means getting more shit done in your 38 hour week not being able to reduce working hours. Jobs that produce consumables have a theoretical cap on production based on market share and that's consumer driven, so mechanisation and productivity improvements means the first things to go are the penalty shifts. Overtime, weekends and nights.
Also, mechanising work doesn't come free, there is a cost to that. The ROI payoff for mechanisation is that you reduce labour costs after the investment in mechanisation
So, if you think the idea holds water, I'll give you a challenge.
Describe a hypothetical situation where company A (lets make it a small family company employing less than 100 people rather than a large multinational) could mechanise function or functions B and achieve all of the following:
1. Zero job losses (people with no job)
2. Zero reductions in take home pay for any employees
3. Reduced hours of work for employees (your 4 day week)
4. Positive ROI. ie, increased profit
I really look forward to what you can come up with. |
While you're here, I've been waiting for your response?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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