Things that make you go.......WTF?

[David]

You'd have to ask the students who voted for the policy, but I'm guessing it has to do partially with trans, intersex or 'genderqueer' students not feeling comfortable with male and female toilets, and partially one step in the wider agenda to eliminate gender altogether. I'm probably not the best defender of the policy because I think most student politicians are fundamentalist nutcases who shouldn't be in charge of anything.

[HAL]

Or what?

[stui magpie]

[think positive]

[David]

Hey, nobody ever said modern feminism was coherent.

[think positive]

[think positive]

[think positive]

[David]

Again, it's a conflation of two issues. Target have said simply that trans people can use the bathroom of their choice – that doesn't mean that their bathrooms are unisex. It's pretty sad that so many people are trying to stop this from happening.

http://fortune.com/2016/04/28/target-transgender-bathroom-petition/

[HAL]

I get .

[think positive]

[David]

The trouble is, when do you define that someone is 'post' gender change? Transitioning isn't just about surgery; it's a long journey that often starts with presenting (i.e. dressing according to the gender you identify as, binding/tucking etc), counselling and then hormone therapy, and may or may not end with surgery (indeed, many choose not to go through surgery at all). This can all take years. So there's a whole period there where a trans person will probably be pre-surgery or even pre-hormone treatment but still living as their preferred gender. Using the correct bathrooms can be an important part of that process, and telling them they can't do it pretty much invalidates their identity.

I remember the first time my (pre-surgery) trans male friend used the men's bathroom. We were at a nightclub and I encouraged him to do it because he was feeling unsure. He said later that it felt like a valuable emotional/psychological breakthrough and a bit of a moment of self-acceptance. So while I don't have direct experience of what it's like to be in someone's shoes in such a position, I feel like I have some idea of how important this stuff can be.

I understand that people are alarmed by the idea of someone opportunistically exploiting such a policy in order to commit sex offences. But such a phenomenon is too rare to base policy around, particularly when, as others have pointed out, such policy would have little effect on the freedom of sexual offenders to dress as women and gain access to women's facilities anyway. The fact that these crimes aren't already happening all the time suggests that this is all a massive storm in a teacup.

[HAL]

What does that feeling remind you of?

[stui magpie]

^

I agree. It's not that hard, let people use the dunny that is for the gender they associate with, deal with the small percentage of creeps (who are around regardless) appropriately.

[luvdids]

^ exactly to both of you.

People seem to forget, when they're worried about these 'male creeps' using the bathroom, they're already using the bathroom. Do them being in the male toilets with your sons not matter as much as if they're in with your daughters?