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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| David wrote: | | Not saying the answer is indulgence! Perhaps some sort of diversion program or even institutionalisation is required. Just responding to RR's suggestion which, I feel, far too many parents actually choose in situations like this. |
My then 14 year old disabled niece (still disabled now) wanted to go to an 18 plus disco and my sister said no. It was 30 kms away and she had no way of getting there or back. So my niece rang community services who said she could do what she liked so she moved out that day. Fast forward 12 years and she turns up at my sisters place demanding a room and was pregnant.
My then brother in law told her to seek other options so she rang the Police and told them that her step father (who had never seen her) and mother had thrown her out of the house she owned. Police turned up with community services who evicted my sister from her own house. t took a few wekks for that drama to be rectified.
Years later after 3 children all taken from her by the same arseholes who told her she had the right to do as she pleased when 14 she still calls on my sister to do her housework etc despite her husband doing nothing.
She turns up and my parents house demanding this and that I am staying for weeks and even signed up for a phone in Dads name and ran up a 5000 dollar bill that Testra had to wear or cop a fine for fraudently using my Dads credit card without permission.In fact they didn't have his details but threatened to cut off his phone. The problem for them was his local member was Minister for Communication who was a personal friend.
In many cases, and I am betting in this one in Queanbeayan, the parents had no say in the little bitches behavior. It is not tough love she needs but a boot in the arse. Big time. If she is going to end up on drugs and getting jail time stiff shit. Why should the whole family be held ransom to a kid who has an issue about a Barney Banana for breakfast .
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^^^ Sounds like the entire family needs to do a midnight move while she's in custody and not let her have their forwarding addresses. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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hang on a minute, your talking about a 14 year old.
who raised her? why did the the parents not teach her, morals, respect, manners, right from wrong? you do your child no good by pandering to them when they are young, and thats the whole thing, why did this kid feel she had the power at 14 to behave that way?
i went through that shit, i stood in front of our front door for 2 hours while my eldest, then 14 and 11 months, demanded to be allowed to hop on a train and go to richmond with her 15 year old friends to a disco! at 11 at night! i stood my ground while she threw herself on the floor screaming "just let me live my life"
i really cant see community services saying that, thats ridiculous. id sue them for the childs behaviour afterwards.
all the problems today are caused by pathetic parenting, the naughty corner, lack of respect, and ridiculous laws. dont believe me take a walk to a shopping centre, its school holidays and feral £$%$ers are everywhere! the parents are doing them no favours, or the community in general.
you should never never never give up on a 14 year old CHILD. thats just wrong. when they get to 17-18 id be marching them down to sit outside a busy copshop so they see what goes down.
all these kids out rampaging from age 11, steeling cars, robbing people, stabbing people, what the **** are they doing out late on a school night, why dont the parents know exactly where an 11-12 year old is on a saturday night?
no wonder kids are coming out of school thick as two bricks, the teachers spend too much time disciplining them. and they are not allowed to.
start holding parents of minors responsible for their behavior. if it was a rabid dog they are responsible, same bloody thing.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
it's not always that easy. You can try your hardest to do the right thing but other influences can impact. 14-16 can be a horrible age for parents, especially single parents.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
it's not always that easy. You can try your hardest to do the right thing but other influences can impact. 14-16 can be a horrible age for parents, especially single parents. |
Tell me about, my daughter was Jekyl and Hide from 14 and a half until 17-18! But she still knew right from wrong. And had manners, and respect for others, (apart from me!!)
You don't give up though, we've spoken about this, you didn't give up either. It's your child, you do what you have to do, cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Not sure if I told you all of it or not, maybe over a beer one day, but yeah I didn't give up.
I did resort to toughish love a few times, but that only worked because I'd managed to set a good foundation in early years.
I'm happy with how things are now. I get on well with both my kids, they come over most Sunday's for dinner and call me if they need help whether physical, instructions, advice or other.
I let them live their lives, I'm not a big part of it, but I am a part and that works for all of us. They know I'm there if they need me, I don't need to be in their face all the time.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ It's a shocking idea, but just as human beings need to be brought up free from abuse and violence to function well later in life, they also need very clear authority to realise their potential. That does not mean authoritarianism, but it does mean a very clear and minimally-negotiable set of boundaries established from an early age to provide security, certainty, and a pattern of responsibility. This little charmer presumably missed out on that step, as so many do, in this age of perennial adolescence.
The world is paradoxical, and one of its many paradoxes is that true freedom depends to a large extent on acceptance of constraints and an authority greater than the self. Unfortunately parents - both of them often stretched thin by working - get very little help from the wider society in establishing that. So we reap what we sow in crime, in health care, in social work, and in education.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | Not sure if I told you all of it or not, maybe over a beer one day, but yeah I didn't give up.
I did resort to toughish love a few times, but that only worked because I'd managed to set a good foundation in early years.
I'm happy with how things are now. I get on well with both my kids, they come over most Sunday's for dinner and call me if they need help whether physical, instructions, advice or other.
I let them live their lives, I'm not a big part of it, but I am a part and that works for all of us. They know I'm there if they need me, I don't need to be in their face all the time. |
Big difference between tough love and moving house while they are in jail!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Not sure if I told you all of it or not, maybe over a beer one day, but yeah I didn't give up.
I did resort to toughish love a few times, but that only worked because I'd managed to set a good foundation in early years.
I'm happy with how things are now. I get on well with both my kids, they come over most Sunday's for dinner and call me if they need help whether physical, instructions, advice or other.
I let them live their lives, I'm not a big part of it, but I am a part and that works for all of us. They know I'm there if they need me, I don't need to be in their face all the time. |
Big difference between tough love and moving house while they are in jail!! |
Why move house when you can change the barrels in the locks. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ It's a shocking idea, but just as human beings need to be brought up free from abuse and violence to function well later in life, they also need very clear authority to realise their potential. That does not mean authoritarianism, but it does mean a very clear and minimally-negotiable set of boundaries established from an early age to provide security, certainty, and a pattern of responsibility. This little charmer presumably missed out on that step, as so many do, in this age of perennial adolescence.
The world is paradoxical, and one of its many paradoxes is that true freedom depends to a large extent on acceptance of constraints and an authority greater than the self. Unfortunately parents - both of them often stretched thin by working - get very little help from the wider society in establishing that. So we reap what we sow in crime, in health care, in social work, and in education. |
The biggest mess IMHO is in the gender bias.
Single mums who don't work get paid from centrelink, maintenance, and community support.
Single Dads who work full time get zero support and still get hit for maintenance. Fkn hard work.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | | Tell me about, my daughter was Jekyl and Hide from 14 and a half until 17-18! |
Obviously, you were doing it wrong. You ought to have a chat to my folks about it. Ask them how they brought me up. I assure you, at that age I was not Jekyll and Hyde. Not me. I was Hyde all the way.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ It's a shocking idea, but just as human beings need to be brought up free from abuse and violence to function well later in life, they also need very clear authority to realise their potential. That does not mean authoritarianism, but it does mean a very clear and minimally-negotiable set of boundaries established from an early age to provide security, certainty, and a pattern of responsibility. This little charmer presumably missed out on that step, as so many do, in this age of perennial adolescence.
The world is paradoxical, and one of its many paradoxes is that true freedom depends to a large extent on acceptance of constraints and an authority greater than the self. Unfortunately parents - both of them often stretched thin by working - get very little help from the wider society in establishing that. So we reap what we sow in crime, in health care, in social work, and in education. |
The biggest mess IMHO is in the gender bias.
Single mums who don't work get paid from centrelink, maintenance, and community support.
Single Dads who work full time get zero support and still get hit for maintenance. Fkn hard work. |
Don't disagree, but it's about more than money. It's also about a wider culture which tells young people that adults are there to be challenged, that august institutions will give way and indulge their bad behaviour, and that their rights are more important than their responsibilities. How many adults are game, nowadays, to intervene when they see low-level criminality by young people in a public space ?
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Tell me about, my daughter was Jekyl and Hide from 14 and a half until 17-18! |
Obviously, you were doing it wrong. You ought to have a chat to my folks about it. Ask them how they brought me up. I assure you, at that age I was not Jekyll and Hyde. Not me. I was Hyde all the way. |
You were my daughter? 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Mugwump wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ It's a shocking idea, but just as human beings need to be brought up free from abuse and violence to function well later in life, they also need very clear authority to realise their potential. That does not mean authoritarianism, but it does mean a very clear and minimally-negotiable set of boundaries established from an early age to provide security, certainty, and a pattern of responsibility. This little charmer presumably missed out on that step, as so many do, in this age of perennial adolescence.
The world is paradoxical, and one of its many paradoxes is that true freedom depends to a large extent on acceptance of constraints and an authority greater than the self. Unfortunately parents - both of them often stretched thin by working - get very little help from the wider society in establishing that. So we reap what we sow in crime, in health care, in social work, and in education. |
The biggest mess IMHO is in the gender bias.
Single mums who don't work get paid from centrelink, maintenance, and community support.
Single Dads who work full time get zero support and still get hit for maintenance. Fkn hard work. |
Don't disagree, but it's about more than money. It's also about a wider culture which tells young people that adults are there to be challenged, that august institutions will give way and indulge their bad behaviour, and that their rights are more important than their responsibilities. How many adults are game, nowadays, to intervene when they see low-level criminality by young people in a public space ? |
That's complicated. Kids have always rebelled against authority where they could, just more covertly when I was a kid than overtly.
Apart from the parenting, kids these days have access to all sorts of information we didn't have. They also have different attitudes toward physicality.
I'm not small, but i'd be hesitant to call out low level criminality as you say, as I don't know if the kids have 20 mates all jacked on Ice ready to climb out of the rafters at me if I intervene and kick me to a pulp.
hesitant doesn't mean i wouldn't do it in the right situation, in some others I might just turn a blind eye under the heading "kids being kids" if no one was being hurt.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ It's a shocking idea, but just as human beings need to be brought up free from abuse and violence to function well later in life, they also need very clear authority to realise their potential. That does not mean authoritarianism, but it does mean a very clear and minimally-negotiable set of boundaries established from an early age to provide security, certainty, and a pattern of responsibility. This little charmer presumably missed out on that step, as so many do, in this age of perennial adolescence.
The world is paradoxical, and one of its many paradoxes is that true freedom depends to a large extent on acceptance of constraints and an authority greater than the self. Unfortunately parents - both of them often stretched thin by working - get very little help from the wider society in establishing that. So we reap what we sow in crime, in health care, in social work, and in education. |
The biggest mess IMHO is in the gender bias.
Single mums who don't work get paid from centrelink, maintenance, and community support.
Single Dads who work full time get zero support and still get hit for maintenance. Fkn hard work. |
Even the ones with custody? That's ridiculous
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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