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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| Also, shit job by a so called teammate to do this through Twitter rather than just call Alice and talk to her. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Wokko wrote: | I would doubt that any significant number of those who feign offence at blackface would even know what a minstrel show is or be able to tell you who Al Jolsen was. They've been told that blackening your face is bad and that's all they need to hear.
I wouldn't think there'd be enough people left alive who'd even seen a minstrel show to get offended by it to bother with this as an issue. |
I think you underestimate how much people know about this topic, particularly in the US. I was well aware of what blackface was and what it represented when I was a teenager, and that was on the other side of the world. I'd be astonished if the history of minstrel shows and African-American exclusion from Hollywood wasn't taught in every junior high school in America.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Dark Beanie 
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Location: A galaxy far, far away.
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | Also, shit job by a so called teammate to do this through Twitter rather than just call Alice and talk to her. |
In this case there is also the issue of Liz Cambage still being angry with her teammates regarding their response to her being absent from Opals training late last year.
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If you are foolish enough to be contented, don't show it, but just grumble with the rest. - Jerome K Jerome |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I fully understand the history of why Blackface makeup has shitty connotations in the USA. British comedians also used a variation to take the piss out of Indians back in the 60's and even 70's.
However, I don't buy into the argument that it always has to be offensive.
If it's done with intent to demean or ridicule, then by all means call it out.
If it's done in an attempt at flattery, to dress up to pretend to be someone famous, then you try to copy the distinguishing physical characteristics of the person. Hair, skin colour, dress style are all things you'd want to copy.
Ben Kingsley shaved his head to portray Ghandi. Did he also wear makeup to darken his skin?
Robert Downey Jr wore blackface in Tropic Thunder and got away with it, so obviously context can count. http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a4792/tropic-thunder-0808/
The culture of taking offence is unfortunately growing and it undermines legitimate change efforts.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I agree that the idea of it just being blanket wrong in every scenario is going too far. Anyone condemning John Safran for darkening his skin for an episode of his show (I still have no idea how he did that) would be going way over the top, and obviously some uses of blackface function as satire and/or political commentary and should be treated with more nuance, at least. People have even used this argument to condemn non-disabled actors playing disabled people, as if nobody in the world has the right to portray someone who isn't the same 'kind' of person (which leads us down a pretty ridiculous dead end).
But to be honest, I'm kind of astounded that anyone in an English-speaking country could stand in front of a mirror applying dark make-up for a fancy dress party and not think for a moment that someone might take it the wrong way. It's like casually dropping the 'n-word' in conversation; I thought it was just one of those things that everybody knows you just don't do (whether such blanket taboos are useful is another question).
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
The history of Blackface and it's connotations is a particularly USA thing, as is the ongoing racism over there and all the shit it brings. It's hardly surprising that a mid 20's Australian athlete doesn't understand that it's suddenly taboo in a country that has no obvious bad history with it.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| David wrote: | | But to be honest, I'm kind of astounded that anyone in an English-speaking country could stand in front of a mirror applying dark make-up for a fancy dress party and not think for a moment that someone might take it the wrong way. |
So how would you dress up as, say, Stevie Wonder? |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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^ it would be racist not to have darkened skin, it would basically be saying you like everything about Stevie Wonder except his skin colour.
Last edited by What'sinaname on Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| You like everything about Stevie Wonder except his skin color. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | ^ it would be racist not to have darkened skin, it would basically be saying you like everything about Stevie Wonder except his skin colour. |
Guess you just have to avoid black people to emulate
Working out well for the Oscars!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | ^ it would be racist not to have darkened skin, it would basically be saying you like everything about Stevie Wonder except his skin colour. |
Exactly!!! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
The history of Blackface and it's connotations is a particularly USA thing, as is the ongoing racism over there and all the shit it brings. It's hardly surprising that a mid 20's Australian athlete doesn't understand that it's suddenly taboo in a country that has no obvious bad history with it. |
Suddenly taboo? Surely you're not serious. 
Even if we're only talking recent history, surely everyone remembers the Hey Hey It's Saturday shit-storm from 5 or so years ago. And as it happens, there is a history of blackface in Australia:
http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/arts/black-face-minstrel-shows#axzz413KRuLjK
In regards to the Stevie Wonder question, why would he even make for a good fancy dress subject if it wasn't for his skin colour and his sunglasses? How would you dress if you wanted to go as Paul McCartney to a fancy dress party? You probably wouldn't, because it'd be a crap idea.
The only reason you'd go as most black performers is if you considered turning yourself black to be funny in its own right. Which is fair enough; maybe it is. But if it's also likely to be hurtful to African-Australian and Aboriginal people, then maybe it wouldn't hurt to try a different outfit.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
The history of Blackface and it's connotations is a particularly USA thing, as is the ongoing racism over there and all the shit it brings. It's hardly surprising that a mid 20's Australian athlete doesn't understand that it's suddenly taboo in a country that has no obvious bad history with it. |
Suddenly taboo? Surely you're not serious.
Even if we're only talking recent history, surely everyone remembers the Hey Hey It's Saturday shit-storm from 5 or so years ago. And as it happens, there is a history of blackface in Australia:
http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/arts/black-face-minstrel-shows#axzz413KRuLjK
In regards to the Stevie Wonder question, why would he even make for a good fancy dress subject if it wasn't for his skin colour and his sunglasses? How would you dress if you wanted to go as Paul McCartney to a fancy dress party? You probably wouldn't, because it'd be a crap idea.
The only reason you'd go as most black performers is if you considered turning yourself black to be funny in its own right. Which is fair enough; maybe it is. But if it's also likely to be hurtful to African-Australian and Aboriginal people, then maybe it wouldn't hurt to try a different outfit. |
Yes, I remember that skit, which is why I mentioned on the previous page.
These people were impersonating Michael Jackson, doing the moonwalk etc. Again, my same question that nobody has answered - how do you impersonate a black person without blackening yourself????
It's the same as the ridiculous outcry when Sam Newman painted himself black to impersonate Nicky Winmar (think it was Winmar...?) - how the hell can you impersonate a black person without being black?
It's like trying to impersonate the Queen without a british accent.
Maybe the world should just put a blanket ban on fancy dress parties or impersonating anyone for any reason. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| luvdids wrote: | | David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
The history of Blackface and it's connotations is a particularly USA thing, as is the ongoing racism over there and all the shit it brings. It's hardly surprising that a mid 20's Australian athlete doesn't understand that it's suddenly taboo in a country that has no obvious bad history with it. |
Suddenly taboo? Surely you're not serious.
Even if we're only talking recent history, surely everyone remembers the Hey Hey It's Saturday shit-storm from 5 or so years ago. And as it happens, there is a history of blackface in Australia:
http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/arts/black-face-minstrel-shows#axzz413KRuLjK
In regards to the Stevie Wonder question, why would he even make for a good fancy dress subject if it wasn't for his skin colour and his sunglasses? How would you dress if you wanted to go as Paul McCartney to a fancy dress party? You probably wouldn't, because it'd be a crap idea.
The only reason you'd go as most black performers is if you considered turning yourself black to be funny in its own right. Which is fair enough; maybe it is. But if it's also likely to be hurtful to African-Australian and Aboriginal people, then maybe it wouldn't hurt to try a different outfit. |
Yes, I remember that skit, which is why I mentioned on the previous page.
These people were impersonating Michael Jackson, doing the moonwalk etc. Again, my same question that nobody has answered - how do you impersonate a black person without blackening yourself????
It's the same as the ridiculous outcry when Sam Newman painted himself black to impersonate Nicky Winmar (think it was Winmar...?) - how the hell can you impersonate a black person without being black?
It's like trying to impersonate the Queen without a british accent.
Maybe the world should just put a blanket ban on fancy dress parties or impersonating anyone for any reason. |
Hahahaahha yep!
Except the Michael Jackson one-he bleached his face so he was pretty white at the end. Probably a bit mottled!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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I think it's a sad day when someone needs to be "educated" to let them know what they've done was "racist".
In this particular case specifically, if anyone thinks that girl had any intent whatsoever to be "racist", then they're either being mischievous or intentionally daft.
If people are offended by someone painting their face brown to portray a famous rapper because they draw a link to the historical connotations of blackface, then who am I to tell them they're wrong??
But at the same time, if people do not draw the same link and just see her dressing up as Kanye West without delving any deeper, then that's ok too.
It's ok that people see the world differently.
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"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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