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Essendon [substance] issue

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Skids Cancer

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Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:38 pm
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I'm hearin'ya but there's no way they'll beat Freo this week.. let alone Sydney, Richmond, geelong,carlton or even the áints in the next few months me thinks? Laughing
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Albert Parker 



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:52 pm
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burnsy17 wrote:
I want carnage and i want it now...!!!

Turd sacked
Thompson sacked
Evans sacked
Players deregistered
Windy Hill targeted by that lunatic running north korea!


Reckon you'll be about half satisfied.

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Greening gold 



Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Location: Narooma - NSW South Coast

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: Essendon [substance] issueReply with quote

Dr.Rock wrote:
Heard that Demetriou has said this issue is going to get real serious real soon. Anyone else heard this?


Your mail appears to be right. This in The Age at midnight:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-injected-drugs-20130410-2hlvx.html

Hird injected drugs

April 11, 2013

Nick McKenzie and Richard Baker

Hird, Essendon facing another drugs crisis

Essendon coach James Hird has been accused of injecting a WADA-blacklisted drug in a program where his players were given another substance anti-doping regulators now say should be banned.

The sports scientist who ran the club's supplement program, Stephen Dank, said he injected James Hird with hexarelin - which WADA banned in 2004 - and that before and during the 2012 AFL season, players were given anti-obesity drug AOD9604.

Information gathered by ASADA corroborates this, but in a statement sent last night, Hird said: ''These claims are horrifying to me, and are being made by a person or people who appear determined to destroy my reputation.''

''I have at all times fully adhered to, and promoted the WADA code and the AFL rules, and the code of ethics of the Essendon Football Club.''

Fairfax Media can reveal that WADA's List Committee of Experts panel recently told Australia's sports doping agency, ASADA, that AOD9604 should be considered as a prohibited substance under one of its controversial catch-all rules.

In an exclusive interview, the club's former sports scientist Stephen Dank confirmed he gave players an extract from pig's brain used to treat Alzheimer's, the first milk from a mother cow and a bark extract.

But he has stressed that nothing he gave players was prohibited. Dank also stressed the supplements were safe for human use even though they were not listed as approved by regulators.

Essendon chairman David Evans has vowed to deal with ''any official [who] has failed in their duty of care to the players'', while the club's legal team has hit back at WADA's assertion AOD9604 was prohibited when players used it.

Governance and player welfare failings at Essendon may result in the AFL charging the club or its senior officials with improper conduct or bringing the game into disrepute.

Dank has claimed that at Essendon, Hird strongly supported his work and encouraged him to push the boundaries.

According to Dank, the pair spoke and texted regularly and he was told by Hird he was in the coach's "inner sanctum".

In information verified by Fairfax Media, Hird was given specific details about supplements being injected into players and the practice of giving injured or

older players more supplements.

Controversial practices include the exclusion of the club's part-time doctor, Bruce Reid, from key decisions on player health and using external doctors to sign off on requests to test player's blood or inject players.

Essendon lawyers will challenge any bid to penalise players for using AOD9604, saying that the Australian Crime Commission's report on doping stated it was not banned and that advice given to the club by ASADA confirmed this.

Records of Hird and Danks' dealings reveal that the coach knew specific details about the supplement regime, including the intravenous administration of vitamins and injections into the stomach or oral administration of other supplements, including an immune-booster known as a thymosin.

As well as taking many of the supplements used by his players, Dank says he injected Hird with hexarelin-a drug that may increase human growth hormone levels and which WADA has banned since 2004.

Dank said he discussed the use of hexarelin with Hird "at length."

"He asked me if players could use it and I said no. Mind you, he wasn't the only coach who was a regular user of it," Dank said.

It is understood Hird has claimed he did not know what he was injected with.

Dank said Hird also took Melanotan II, a drug popular among bodybuilders because of its tanning effect and claims it aids sleeping and libido. Dank defended the use of hexarelin or other supplements by Hird and other football department staff. "They were using something to give them a bit of lift to help with the stresses of their job. It was something they were well entitled to do. It is not a bad example. It is medicine," he said.

While not commenting on any specific club or sport, ASADA chief Aurora Andruska said that irrespective of whether a substance is banned by WADA, the use of supplements not approved for human use posed a "major health risk."

The supplement program exposed players to products which risked breaching doping laws, often had unproven or uncertain health effects and, while able to be taken in some circumstances, are not listed as "approved" by the Therapeutic Goods Administration.

When Dank worked at NRL club Cronulla in 2011, some players were given supplements, including CJC1295, which stimulate the body's production of human growth hormones and which WADA has also deemed banned.

The fact that players were given substances WADA says are banned does not mean they will necessarily be found guilty of doping or sanctioned as they may argue they were inadvertently doped.

Essendon's claim that it was provided different advice by ASADA in relation to AOD, and the attitude taken by some NRL clubs to ASADA's inquiries, suggest that at least some of the agency's anti-doping cases will face heated legal and scientific challenge if pursued.

None of the Essendon players were aware what they took was banned and Dank maintains he has always stayed within WADA's code.

Dank has revealed he was put under pressure at the club to import sheep placental cells from overseas to use in players in 2013, a plan scrapped when he was sacked from Essendon late last year after a dispute about the expensive methods he recommended and used.

Essendon players spent over $50,000 being treated at a hyperbaric chamber in South Yarra run by Dr Mal Hooper.

When asked why thymosin peptides were given to players as an immune system booster when there is debate about their effectiveness, Dank said: "Well, apart from the fact that we won 11 out of our first 14 games … at the end of the day, I was very happy with the science."

Dank said he gave players anti-obesity drug AOD9604 to help them recover from arduous training or games and, in comments backed by experts, he dismissed suggestions AOD is performance enhancing.

Dank has dismissed the suggestion his program wasn't authorised by the relevant officials, including Essendon CEO Ian Robson and senior manager Danny Corcoran. Dank worked most closely with club fitness guru Dean Robinson, who brought the sports scientist to Essendon, and Hird.

"Well Danny [Corcoran] certainly knew everything as he needed to," said Dank, while pointing out that club officials pushed for him to bring supplements on a pre-season camp at the Gold Coast.

Dank first used anti-obesity drug AOD at NRL club Manly in 2010 and again at Essendon.

WADA's expert panel has advised Australian authorities that AOD falls under a catch-all clause in anti-doping laws that prohibits the use of supplements not approved by any regulator for therapeutic use.

Players were also given alzheimer's drug cerebrolysin, which is extracted from pig's brain and has the potential to increase alertness.

Many of the supplements used at Essendon are still undergoing clinical trials and are not approved by the TGA. They may be lawfully used if sourced from a compounding pharmacist. Dank sourced most of his supplements for use at Essendon from a South Yarra compounding chemist Nima Alavi.

Asked about the use of bovine colustrum in players, which is produced by a cow immediately after giving birth, Dank said that it was high in various proteins.

"There is some very, very good data supporting it. There is some data not so supportive to be honest." He said "if I have to wait for an absolute blueprint piece of scientific literature" he would end up using nothing on players.

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Greening gold 



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:43 am
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and this from Caro (text included to save Euro readers one of their ten Fairfax downloads)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/right-thing-for-hird-to-do-is-step-down-20130410-2hlvg.html

Right thing for Hird to do is step down

April 11, 2013 Caroline Wilson Chief Football Writer for The Age

In early February, as James Hird's world began to unravel, he still didn't get it. Sitting alongside his chairman and his chief executive at AFL head office, the Essendon legend, premiership captain and now coach said: ''I'm shocked to be sitting here.''

Two months later, as the evidence against Hird continues to deeply disturb those who are investigating him, that claim seems fanciful.
The best case scenario now for the highly paid coach who is emerging as a central figure in the club's doping investigation is that he was incompetent and naive to the point of delusional. The worst case is that he has been unco-operative at a time when the Australian sporting landscape is demanding full disclosure. Either way, Hird has been derelict in his duty as head coach of an AFL club ultimately responsible for the careers and welfare of 44 young men.

So many players could potentially be banned by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority, all of whom were assured by their coach and club hero during 2012 that they broke no rules.

Having embraced and never appropriately questioned the irregular practices implemented by sport scientist Stephen Dank that punctuated the Bombers' ultimately disastrous 2012 season, Hird led by example and worse.

The most honourable move for Hird now would be to resign. At the least Essendon should stand him down until the ASADA investigation into the club has run its race.

The Bombers' internal investigation will almost certainly end the tenure of club chief Ian Robson, who seemed to have no clear picture of the damage that was being done on his watch. Nor has the evidence been kind to Hird's long-time ally and Essendon football manager Danny Corcoran, who also looks certain to go.

Chairman David Evans addressed the Essendon players over two sessions on Wednesday in an attempt to outline his knowledge of what substances they had allegedly unknowingly taken, and the mood among those players has been one of increased concern.

The future of senior assistant Mark Thompson, who introduced high-performance chief Dean Robinson to the club, who in turn brought in Dank, remains unclear. Dank had lasted three months at the Gold Coast Suns before being told to leave and was persona non grata at Cronulla, and yet none of the above checked his credentials or his record.

The club's long-time doctor, Bruce Reid, has told colleagues he wrote to the board expressing concerns about the so-called ''irregular practices''. Hird has told those close to him he trusted the wrong people and feels badly let down.

And yet evidence is mounting that Hird, whose fascination with various supplements dates back at least a decade to his relationship with convicted drug offender Shane Charter, was a key player and supporter of those practices.

As Essendon became something of a part-time lab experimenting and pushing medical boundaries, Hird's players became human pin cushions for a time. According to two players from 2012 now deeply concerned at their actions, Hird and his assistant Simon Goodwin were ''at the front of the queue'' during some injecting sessions.

Dank has alleged to Fairfax Media that Hird, Goodwin and another assistant, James Byrne, took substances outside the World Anti-Doping Agency code. Hird's response has indicated that if he was taking banned substances he did so unknowingly.

But the signs in recent weeks coming from Essendon and the AFL indicate that he will not be protected. David Evans, who worked so hard to bring Hird back to Essendon, will not let his close friendship with the coach come before the football club.

Evans' mantra even before he appointed Ziggy Switkowski to investigate Essendon's internal practices and structure made it clear that the footballers remained his No. 1 priority. He must be feeling sick at the thought of the blind faith those players placed in Hird, who with Evans addressed the players' parents back in February and assured them some ''good news'' was on the horizon.

Those players, including club captain Jobe Watson, who was one of the on-field leaders who demanded a written assurance about the substances with which they were injected, have been advised to seek separate legal representation outside the players-association-appointed Queen's counsel David Grace. The club still faces legal action from its footballers.

Essendon signed Hird, an untried coach, at the end of 2010 to a four-year deal worth close to $4 million. A further $1 million was required to settle with the still contracted Matthew Knights, and Mark Thompson joined as Hird's senior assistant on an annual contract estimated at $650,000.

It was crazy money in the context of Hird's experience but not when you consider his club status and the membership, sponsorship and positive vibe he brought with him.

At that early February press conference a grim-faced Hird said: ''The supplements our players were given, in my opinion and my knowledge, were all approved and within the regulations we all play the game by.
''I'm very disappointed - shocked is probably the best word. I believe we followed processes, we put in place the right sort of processes. My understanding is we worked within the framework given to us by the AFL and WADA.''

More than two months have passed and while so many of his players continued to believe in Hird, the coach can still not guarantee that those young men - whose bodies were experimented with in such cavalier fashion - will not be punished as drug cheats.

For that alone he should step down.

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Greening gold 



Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Location: Narooma - NSW South Coast

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:44 am
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Albert Parker wrote:
burnsy17 wrote:
I want carnage and i want it now...!!!

Turd sacked
Thompson sacked
Evans sacked
Players deregistered
Windy Hill targeted by that lunatic running north korea!


Reckon you'll be about half satisfied.


I reckon you'll get the full Monty.

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Greening gold 



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: Essendon [substance] issueReply with quote

Dr.Rock wrote:
Heard that Demetriou has said this issue is going to get real serious real soon. Anyone else heard this?

What do we reckon will be the outcome? Surely all players involvedcan't be suspended can they? But if one goes they all must you'd imagine. And what about Timmy's brownlow then??


Forget Jobe's Brownlow. What about Golden Boy's Brownlow? Can they strip it for "bringing the game into disrepute"?

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Greening gold 



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:48 am
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ANNODAM wrote:
Nothing will get done, you mark my words!

Now if it was us, we would've been tarred, feathered & strung up by our balls!


I'd say it's lucky Mrs Hird already has her quota of kiddies.

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ronrat 



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:02 am
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You can't shoot Bambi. No way will the AFL let Hird down. Will be another 5 billion suspended sentence.
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Cuthbert Collingwood Aquarius

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:07 am
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Faaaaaark!!! Is all I can say...

....apart from thank Christ we got Buckley. Always knew he was the good 'un out of him, Voss and Turdy. Character - you can't buy it!

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Piesnchess 

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:41 am
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Greening gold wrote:
and this from Caro (text included to save Euro readers one of their ten Fairfax downloads)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/right-thing-for-hird-to-do-is-step-down-20130410-2hlvg.html

Right thing for Hird to do is step down

April 11, 2013 Caroline Wilson Chief Football Writer for The Age

In early February, as James Hird's world began to unravel, he still didn't get it. Sitting alongside his chairman and his chief executive at AFL head office, the Essendon legend, premiership captain and now coach said: ''I'm shocked to be sitting here.''

Two months later, as the evidence against Hird continues to deeply disturb those who are investigating him, that claim seems fanciful.
The best case scenario now for the highly paid coach who is emerging as a central figure in the club's doping investigation is that he was incompetent and naive to the point of delusional. The worst case is that he has been unco-operative at a time when the Australian sporting landscape is demanding full disclosure. Either way, Hird has been derelict in his duty as head coach of an AFL club ultimately responsible for the careers and welfare of 44 young men.

So many players could potentially be banned by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority, all of whom were assured by their coach and club hero during 2012 that they broke no rules.

Having embraced and never appropriately questioned the irregular practices implemented by sport scientist Stephen Dank that punctuated the Bombers' ultimately disastrous 2012 season, Hird led by example and worse.

The most honourable move for Hird now would be to resign. At the least Essendon should stand him down until the ASADA investigation into the club has run its race.

The Bombers' internal investigation will almost certainly end the tenure of club chief Ian Robson, who seemed to have no clear picture of the damage that was being done on his watch. Nor has the evidence been kind to Hird's long-time ally and Essendon football manager Danny Corcoran, who also looks certain to go.

Chairman David Evans addressed the Essendon players over two sessions on Wednesday in an attempt to outline his knowledge of what substances they had allegedly unknowingly taken, and the mood among those players has been one of increased concern.

The future of senior assistant Mark Thompson, who introduced high-performance chief Dean Robinson to the club, who in turn brought in Dank, remains unclear. Dank had lasted three months at the Gold Coast Suns before being told to leave and was persona non grata at Cronulla, and yet none of the above checked his credentials or his record.

The club's long-time doctor, Bruce Reid, has told colleagues he wrote to the board expressing concerns about the so-called ''irregular practices''. Hird has told those close to him he trusted the wrong people and feels badly let down.

And yet evidence is mounting that Hird, whose fascination with various supplements dates back at least a decade to his relationship with convicted drug offender Shane Charter, was a key player and supporter of those practices.

As Essendon became something of a part-time lab experimenting and pushing medical boundaries, Hird's players became human pin cushions for a time. According to two players from 2012 now deeply concerned at their actions, Hird and his assistant Simon Goodwin were ''at the front of the queue'' during some injecting sessions.

Dank has alleged to Fairfax Media that Hird, Goodwin and another assistant, James Byrne, took substances outside the World Anti-Doping Agency code. Hird's response has indicated that if he was taking banned substances he did so unknowingly.

But the signs in recent weeks coming from Essendon and the AFL indicate that he will not be protected. David Evans, who worked so hard to bring Hird back to Essendon, will not let his close friendship with the coach come before the football club.

Evans' mantra even before he appointed Ziggy Switkowski to investigate Essendon's internal practices and structure made it clear that the footballers remained his No. 1 priority. He must be feeling sick at the thought of the blind faith those players placed in Hird, who with Evans addressed the players' parents back in February and assured them some ''good news'' was on the horizon.

Those players, including club captain Jobe Watson, who was one of the on-field leaders who demanded a written assurance about the substances with which they were injected, have been advised to seek separate legal representation outside the players-association-appointed Queen's counsel David Grace. The club still faces legal action from its footballers.

Essendon signed Hird, an untried coach, at the end of 2010 to a four-year deal worth close to $4 million. A further $1 million was required to settle with the still contracted Matthew Knights, and Mark Thompson joined as Hird's senior assistant on an annual contract estimated at $650,000.

It was crazy money in the context of Hird's experience but not when you consider his club status and the membership, sponsorship and positive vibe he brought with him.

At that early February press conference a grim-faced Hird said: ''The supplements our players were given, in my opinion and my knowledge, were all approved and within the regulations we all play the game by.
''I'm very disappointed - shocked is probably the best word. I believe we followed processes, we put in place the right sort of processes. My understanding is we worked within the framework given to us by the AFL and WADA.''

More than two months have passed and while so many of his players continued to believe in Hird, the coach can still not guarantee that those young men - whose bodies were experimented with in such cavalier fashion - will not be punished as drug cheats.

For that alone he should step down.


WOW, looks like the golden haired boy is in deep shit. Cannot see him getting outa this one, the evidence against him is racking up bigtime. If the League has any balls at all, it must suspend him, now. Exclamation Exclamation

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What'sinaname Libra



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:33 am
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Caro has no integrity. She ran this shite 2 months ago.

All it will do it galvanize Essendon.

They'll make top 4 on the back of this saga.

Would love to see journals held accountable for their crap.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:59 am
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the ru is on fire wrote:
Faaaaaark!!! Is all I can say...

....apart from thank Christ we got Buckley. Always knew he was the good 'un out of him, Voss and Turdy. Character - you can't buy it!


Yep

I have to say, i am reeling this morning after reading that

Gees those poor players, apart from looking stupid, what have they put their bodies at risk of?

I always hated hird, at least now I have a reason, not just because he always got more accolades than bucks! he's a joke, he has to go.

And it has to be now. Or we won't just be fighting about losing Melbourne.

Holy shit. OMG. Where will this end? And more importantly, when?

I feel for the essendumb players, but it's also not fair on those playing them. They won't care about their actions, they will be out for blood. They are cheats, wether they know ot or not. This is just getting farcical now.

Well I won't miss hird, that's for sure. And hopefully thomo goes with him Wink

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Mr Dapper Travis Cloke 



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:09 am
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There is no WADA rule against a coach taking anti-aging drugs. On the WADA banned list or not.

He is a coach not a player.

Basically the Article says Essendon players didn't take WADA black listed drugs. They were on a list of "maybe".

Essendon coach James Hird has been accused of injecting a WADA-blacklisted drug in a program where his players were given another substance anti-doping regulators now say should be banned.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-injected-drugs-20130410-2hlvx.html#ixzz2Q66fDfVm

Richard Inglis on 3AW just said the same thing.

It is not illegal for a coach to take banned substances.
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buzzlightyear 



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:27 am
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Its an allegation from Stephen Dank. His credibility is somewhat tarnished so you need to take this in context. Essendon are having a press conference later this morning.

There are three key points imo. One is the issue of legality of what was supposed to have been taken, which is what we are all focusing on since the Fed Police, ACC & Government made their announcement earlier this year. At this stage, at least the public are none the wiser on this.

The other is the duty of care that a football club has to the health of its players in experimenting with substances which sail close to the wind. The pig's brain peptide in question, whilst legal overseas was not approved by the TGA.

There is no law against coaching staff taking WADA banned substances but if true, the stunning lack of judgement is a complete failing of the trust to its members, board & the AFL in general.

The second & third points are, as Caroline Wilson has called for this morning, enough to seriously jeopardise the tenure of all key staff (Hird, Evans, Thompson et al).

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:37 am
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buzzlightyear wrote:
Its an allegation from Stephen Dank. His credibility is somewhat tarnished so you need to take this in context. Essendon are having a press conference later this morning.

There are three key points imo. One is the issue of legality of what was supposed to have been taken, which is what we are all focusing on since the Fed Police, ACC & Government made their announcement earlier this year. At this stage, at least the public are none the wiser on this.

The other is the duty of care that a football club has to the health of its players in experimenting with substances which sail close to the wind. The pig's brain peptide in question, whilst legal overseas was not approved by the TGA.

There is no law against coaching staff taking WADA banned substances but if true, the stunning lack of judgement is a complete failing of the trust to its members, board & the AFL in general.

The second & third points are, as Caroline Wilson has called for this morning, enough to seriously jeopardise the tenure of all key staff (Hird, Evans, Thompson et al).


That's the whole thing, the lack of judgement if it's true.

Why would a coach take a chance like that? Of being hung out to dry? He'd take ot himself, why not give it to the players mentality? I just can't believe the stupidity, arrogance that such a move would take!

It's mind boggling

Or lies and a cover up.

Smething has to give. Or credibility is shot.

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