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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| jackcass wrote: | | Beast wrote: | Take it the right way but your reasoning reminds me of of myself trying to justify the clean out that happened at the Club, i.e. when you look at each player individually I can justify why they were moved on or left but I have a difficulty explaining why that happened when we were in the premiership window.
Bottom line is we're the best resourced Club in the land but for three seasons on the trot starting the season with the biggest injury list in AFL.
Even some that are carry over from 2013 (Seedsman, Thomas, Sharenberg) don't seem to have been managed properly.
And I'd blame rotten luck had we had a spate of long term injuries and thankfully we don't but at the same time we are unable to field a side resembling our best in round one after bowing out from the finals early.....
The reality of the situation is we've already had two years written off due to injury, especially 2012, and 2014 if off to a shocking start.
We need to get significantly better in this regard or there is even no point in having such a talented list. |
Understand and appreciate your point of view. I just think that the cause of injuries is more luck related than not.
In terms of management, I concur that they probably haven't got everything 100% right. But then Beams in an interview last week said he pushed himself too hard last season ignoring the medicos and fitness staff who were often trying to pull him back. He's learned from it but it cost him (and us) 15-16 games in 2013. My point being there is only so much that the club can do and sometimes there are other contributing factors we don't know about.
I back the "surgery as the last recourse" stance the club seems to take with some injuries. Surgery is always a risk and a less invasive option should be prefered.
And while I don't like to see any player injured, especially our, it's not all negative. I mean would Elliott have gotten so many opportunities if Krakouer and Didak didn't miss so much footy. Ditto Williams and Johnson - Toovey. Ditto Grundy and Jolly. Ditto Dwyer-Thomas and Ball.
The last couple of seasons have been very tough on supporters but as a consequence we've now a group of prospects who've had good senior exposure in Elliott (35 games), Sinclair (39), Dwyer (21), Grundy (7), Williams (22), Thomas (19), Seedsman (2 , Fasolo (40), Keeffe (22), Kennedy (12), Mooney, Witts, Oxley, Frost. |
I can confirm that is the truth. His sister told me the exact same thing about 2 weeks before his return last season |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| RudeBoy wrote: | I never realised there were so many fully qualified sports scientists on Nicks. 
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That's a pretty flawed comment to be honest. Anytime anyone questions a decision of the club, you can throw up this little chestnut, "never realised there were so many fully qualified, AFL coaches, assistant coaches, AFL presidents……<insert CFC role here>. What's the point of a discussion board, if you had to agree? May as well call it an agreement board.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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| collie dog wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Beast wrote: | 14 players, half of them arguably best 22 on the injury list again prior to round 1.
Nathan Freeman told me he reckons he was overtrained during the preseason.
Are we still blaming luck??? |
What's the track record of the new head of Fitness or what ever his title is? |
He came from St Kilda. Possibly a plant.  |
He was at the Bulldogs with Rocket Eade prior.
These sports science guys in the AFL are getting paid way overs relative to what the revenues of this sport generate. We offered comparable/higher pay to the ManU guy I understand. While AFL is a demanding sport, I think it shows the relativities of how the Sports Science guys have hoodwinked the industry here. Other admininstrators and certainly the players are not on comparable pay.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | I never realised there were so many fully qualified sports scientists on Nicks.
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That's a pretty flawed comment to be honest. Anytime anyone questions a decision of the club, you can throw up this little chestnut, "never realised there were so many fully qualified, AFL coaches, assistant coaches, AFL presidents……<insert CFC role here>. What's the point of a discussion board, if you had to agree? May as well call it an agreement board. |
This is NEVER an agreement board, take it from me mate 
I can’t see your problem being related to discussion. You had your say and then received a funny retort back! I think the problem I have noticed lately is that many posters seem to have lost their sense of humour and ability to take a hit of sarcasm. Need to chill out and see the funny side of life (or as the famous Monty Python team said, always look on the bright side of life, especially regarding Collingwood!!)   |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Torino, Italy
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White and Reid out. What a joke.
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Buon Giorno |
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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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Lazz, are you seriously suggesting that there are posters here that lack a sense of humour? Really? Hang on a minute, I can think of a couple now that you mention it, but they also have limited brain power. Being dumb and humourless makes a bad combination in Nick's BB.
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After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
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This underlines what I've been saying. I've looked long & hard at Buckleys first two years as an AFL coach, and the biggest things to become obvious are that (A) If he doesn't like a player he gets rid of them, and (b) He now has 3 years of appalling injury rates, these two things on their own have cost us matches, a flag, and some of our best players, to wit: Thomas, Wellingham, Shaw, Jolly, Didak, etc etc.
Added to that he has shown no ability as a tactician, hasn't taken any responsibility on himself for failures, preferring to blame players, and has decided to re-make the Collingwood culture which in 2011 was easily the best in the league. He doesn't understand what culture means in the context of a footy club, proven by the fact that he got rid of the two best, most popular, key makers of that highly bonded culture. Further proof is the eschewing of the overseas altitude training camps, saying our climate room can replicate this perfectly well. He simply fails to grasp team bonding, and nothing builds that bond like Overseas trips as a group and interstate games.
I didn't say a single bad word about the guys coaching until the end of last season, but his response to the final loss ended that, it was culture, it was the players, it wasn't me.
And now Karma is starting to kick our arses, Sharenberg to miss most, if not all, the season while Daisy will start round 1 for Carlton looking as sharp as he ever was. Did you SEE the 45 metre pass to the right side of his forward, or the mark against two blokes followed by burning rubber and sprinting off on his own...
...but yeah, we really couldn’t take a chance on that FOOT!
We still have the cattle to win a flag, but not without great coaching, and we simply don't have it.
Can anyone seriously argue? Can anyone give an example of great strategy? Great planning? A game plan? (and don't just say 'hand balling more!) So far the plan seems to be "Do the opposite of everything Malthouse did!"
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... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
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35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
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dp
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"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
Visit My Website!
Last edited by 35forever on Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
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tp
_________________
"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
Visit My Website! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | | Lazz, are you seriously suggesting that there are posters here that lack a sense of humour? Really? Hang on a minute, I can think of a couple now that you mention it, but they also have limited brain power. Being dumb and humourless makes a bad combination in Nick's BB. |
True, however you add the above to also being eternally negative and pessimistic, you get the perfect combination for the usual "perceptive fellow" who will post here immediately after the game tonight if we lose. The sky will well and truly fall in.............. |
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Scribe
Joined: 30 May 2010
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35forever wrote: | Quote: | | Can anyone seriously argue? Can anyone give an example of great strategy? Great planning? A game plan? (and don't just say 'hand balling more!) So far the plan seems to be "Do the opposite of everything Malthouse did!" |
You want someone to seriously argue? No worries, captain panic and exaggerate.
I will start with a quote from Franz Fanon.
"Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable called cognitive dissonance. And, because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalise, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with that core belief."
This is a quote usually assigned to those struggling to deal with the many logical questions that plague religion, but because football is a religion in this town (and a fantastic one at that), it applies perfectly.
I believe this sensation may be something you are struggling with 35forever. Let me see if I can help.
If after two football seasons that have both had their fair share of incredible victories and considerable individual player development, if you need help finding an example of "great strategy, planning or game plan" then you are either not looking hard enough, or choosing to ignore what's in front of you.
This is fair enough, I understand. We all loved what Mick Malthouse created in 2010 and 2011 - they were fantastic football sides and Mick was a fantastic coach. That's gone now. Move on. The best sides, the best operators, the best businesses, the best people - all move on.
Culture is the most overrated word in football - but because everyone harps on about it every week, I understand why people are concerned about ours.
Let me point out a few things:
- Malthouse signed a contract, renegged on that contract, made a fuss, then turned players, fans and the media against Buckley. Had Malthouse fulfilled that agreement and stayed on as a mentor like he said he would, many of the supposed culture issues wouldn't exist. Buckley cannot be held accountable for Malthouse's about face on the contract. The way Buckley handled the avalanche of expectation, the criticisms under pressure and the club as a whole is to be commended.
- Wellingham, Shaw and Jolly were all fine footballers. Jolly was completely finished and deserved to be delisted, while Shaw and Wellingham were used to create a mini-rebuild of our senior list so that you and your children can continue to watch Collingwood in the finals each season, instead of a patch of making the eight for 4-5 years, then spending 4-5 years in the bottom half of the ladder (read: St.Kilda, Bulldogs). This is called clever list management and while we may not like seeing favourite sons go play football elsewhere, it's part and parcel of the game.
- High altitude camps are incredibly overrated. You can bond as a group anywhere. It's childish to think otherwise.
- As for Buckley's nous as a coach, he is in his third season and not only is he rebuilding a list, he's also restructuring a style that suits the modern game. Collingwood have had some incredible, unbelievable victories over the last two seasons and if you choose to look over them in pursuit of ammunition for your big rant, than no one here can really help you.
- Scharenberg is a young man who will play 10+ years at this football club. I'm not sure what 'karma' we have attracted by selecting him when we knew full well he had problems with his feet that could delay his start to football. The kid will be ok.
- Dale Thomas chose to go to Carlton. Let me repeat that. A Collingwood premiership player CHOSE to play with Carlton so he could pay a few extra dollars in tax. Collingwood didn't let him go, we were desperate to see him stay - but not for ridiculous money... and that's a risk Carlton has taken. If one drop punt in a practice game has decided the issue for you, then I suggest you have a bit more patience and look at things long term.
I hope that helps mate
Go Pies |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| Great post Scribe, but I am afraid you're fighting a losing battle. All those points have been made ad nausiem to 35 Forever before. There is no reasoning with him. He still thinks we should have kept Didak for another year too |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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| 35forever wrote: | This underlines what I've been saying. I've looked long & hard at Buckleys first two years as an AFL coach, and the biggest things to become obvious are that (A) If he doesn't like a player he gets rid of them, and (b) He now has 3 years of appalling injury rates, these two things on their own have cost us matches, a flag, and some of our best players, to wit: Thomas, Wellingham, Shaw, Jolly, Didak, etc etc.
Added to that he has shown no ability as a tactician, hasn't taken any responsibility on himself for failures, preferring to blame players, and has decided to re-make the Collingwood culture which in 2011 was easily the best in the league. He doesn't understand what culture means in the context of a footy club, proven by the fact that he got rid of the two best, most popular, key makers of that highly bonded culture. Further proof is the eschewing of the overseas altitude training camps, saying our climate room can replicate this perfectly well. He simply fails to grasp team bonding, and nothing builds that bond like Overseas trips as a group and interstate games.
I didn't say a single bad word about the guys coaching until the end of last season, but his response to the final loss ended that, it was culture, it was the players, it wasn't me.
And now Karma is starting to kick our arses, Sharenberg to miss most, if not all, the season while Daisy will start round 1 for Carlton looking as sharp as he ever was. Did you SEE the 45 metre pass to the right side of his forward, or the mark against two blokes followed by burning rubber and sprinting off on his own...
...but yeah, we really couldn’t take a chance on that FOOT!
We still have the cattle to win a flag, but not without great coaching, and we simply don't have it.
Can anyone seriously argue? Can anyone give an example of great strategy? Great planning? A game plan? (and don't just say 'hand balling more!) So far the plan seems to be "Do the opposite of everything Malthouse did!" |
Are you Jack Spain mate?
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Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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Scribe
Joined: 30 May 2010
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| Quote: | | Stupied: Great post Scribe, but I am afraid you're fighting a losing battle. All those points have been made ad nausiem to 35 Forever before. There is no reasoning with him. He still thinks we should have kept Didak for another year too |
Thanks mate. Sometimes, I can't help myself.
I still remember when the same people that are bagging Buckley and pining for Malthouse's return were calling for Mick's head pre-2010.
Funny place this. |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Jury is still out re Bucks' coaching, but to suggest we could have won more flags with the squad we had is complete delusion.
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kill for collingwood! |
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