 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
Someone educate me on the rights or there lack of, of gay people as i have rarely given them much thought to be honest. Is marriage the primary right and everything that comes with it what they are missing?
If gay marriage is legally recognised will this end the inequality?
_________________
No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
________________ |
|
|
|
 |
drfranger
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Equal Marriage is one of two last big legal rights left for GLBTIQ folk to be granted in Oz - the other is the right to be exempt from religious-based discrimination. David Marr wrote a great article in the Age that explains that issue recently if you sincerely want to learn about it.
Once that's done however the real work begins of changing a society's attitudes and a lot of the ways our it discriminates through insitutions. That's why as a Pies fan I'm fine with (and glad for) the Pink Magpies who'll be helping this important work.
Now this has all gotten a bit serious - I'm off to read rumours about who is on it. |
|
|
|
|
Hiss 
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
|
| Post subject: What | |
|
| David wrote: | | I wouldn't be so pessimistic. It wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking, that views like BHPIE's were something approaching the norm. When you think about the progress of other civil rights movements (gender equality, black rights movement over in the US), gay rights has actually made remarkably swift progress. An open gay rights movement as such didn't exist until the early 1970s; sodomy was still illegal in most Western countries, what, under 30 years ago? Just three days ago, the UK house of commons voted to legalise same-sex marriage, and Australia is probably one more ALP government away from following suit. Don't get me wrong, I'm as frustrated as anybody that Gillard and Abbott have so effectively stalled progress on this for the time being, but the tide is still turning. We don't have long to wait. |
Our society is worse off then it has ever been with violence and other social dysfunction at record levels. Yet what I hear from the selfish minorities is they want to keep changing traditional values purely to suit their own views of how a society should be. They will often be heard trotting out the more global extremes in our human history to support their argument falsely and emotively. I much preferred the way society was with great family values and stability. Gays should simply shut up, get on with their lives and stop demanding we change our entire societal values to succumb to their selfish demands. No minority rights should ever prevail over the majority. Otherwise you end up with anarchy.
And to the poster fraud John Wren on here try and contribute something intelligent this year instead of your cowardly dumb routines. Better off simply ignore my posts and stop responding you dope. I must learn how to block you.
_________________
I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
|
|
|
|
September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Ok can I ask another reasonable question. Is this change equivalent in the relms of change to banning Christmas in schools for the sake of minority groups such as Muslims. It's feels similar.
Once again please educate me. I ask without prejudice.
_________________
No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
________________ |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
No, both assertions are wrong. SZ, nobody's stopping straight people from getting married. As for Hiss, what his argument (?) fails to address (I've long since lost track of when he's being serious and when he's taking the piss!) is that gay rights is not a minority issue. If gays and lesbians were the only people who cared about, say, same-sex marriage, all the protests would be coming from no more than 5 to 10 percent of the population — not a small number of voices when you think of it, but still enough of a minority for their arguments to be lost in amongst the noise.
Instead, we see polls suggesting that over 60% of Australians support marriage equality. Why is this so? Consider the following demographics:
1. Gays and lesbians
2. Parents of gays and lesbians
3. Friends of gays and lesbians
4. People who care about civil liberties
5. People who care about the rights of disenfranchised minorities
6. People who are socially progressive in any way.
7. The bulk of 'Generation Y', who have grown up in a culture that doesn't consider homosexuality as immoral or perverse, and treats gays and lesbians as real, visible people.
8. People with no agenda who simply don't see how two people of the same sex getting married is a problem.
So, no, Hiss, it's not just 'gays' who are demanding we change our social values and institutions. It's the vast majority of decent Australians.
What should really scare the bigots is that, every day — every month, every year — old people are dying or being wheeled off to nursing homes while some teenager turns 18 and replaces them as a voting citizen. And guess what the vast majority of my generation think about same-sex marriage? As some guy once said, the times, they are a-changin'.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
|
Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | jack_spain wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | I guess that's as close to a classy comment as we are gonna get from you on this one eh Jack?
Oh well, its a broad church the ole Collingwood FC.
Great to see the AFL associated with this event; one can only wish the evening ends with a good old effigy burning of Aker! |
Hey, everyone watches Modern Family now and loves it. Gay rights are so "yesterday". Freedom of expression is the right under severe threat in this country now. |
I look forward to a day when gay rights are indeed 'yesterday'; when, for instance, same-sex couples in long-term relationships are no longer treated as second-class citizens. That day hasn't arrived yet. Nobody's forcing you to march with them, Jack (though perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if you consider gay rights to be so worthy of universal acceptance!). |
i look forward to the day when we don't even have to 'say' gay rights..... that they just have the same rights as the rest of us.
_________________
Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
|
|
|
|
Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | No, both assertions are wrong. SZ, nobody's stopping straight people from getting married. As for Hiss, what his argument (?) fails to address (I've long since lost track of when he's being serious and when he's taking the piss!) is that gay rights is not a minority issue. If gays and lesbians were the only people who cared about, say, same-sex marriage, all the protests would be coming from no more than 5 to 10 percent of the population — not a small number of voices when you think of it, but still enough of a minority for their arguments to be lost in amongst the noise.
Instead, we see polls suggesting that over 60% of Australians support marriage equality. Why is this so? Consider the following demographics:
1. Gays and lesbians
2. Parents of gays and lesbians
3. Friends of gays and lesbians - ME
4. People who care about civil liberties - ME
5. People who care about the rights of disenfranchised minorities - ME
6. People who are socially progressive in any way. - HOPE IT'S ME
7. The bulk of 'Generation Y', who have grown up in a culture that doesn't consider homosexuality as immoral or perverse, and treats gays and lesbians as real, visible people.
8. People with no agenda who simply don't see how two people of the same sex getting married is a problem. - DEFINITELY ME
So, no, Hiss, it's not just 'gays' who are demanding we change our social values and institutions. It's the vast majority of decent Australians. - ABSOLUTELY 100% ME
What should really scare the bigots is that, every day — every month, every year — old people are dying or being wheeled off to nursing homes while some teenager turns 18 and replaces them as a voting citizen. And guess what the vast majority of my generation think about same-sex marriage? As some guy once said, the times, they are a-changin'. |
David, I think this is your best post of 2013....... and 2012, and 2011 etc lol
_________________
Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
|
|
|
|
schuey07 
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Location: Mount Waverley
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| ^ Yea I'm pretty much no 8 on David's list. |
|
|
|
|
die4pies 
Homeward bound
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Trenerry Cres.
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Conservatives that resist change are always found to be on the wrong side of history.
Time brings change. It is just a question of how long it takes.
_________________
"MAKE COLLINGWOOD GRATE AGAIN" |
|
|
|
|
die4pies
Homeward bound
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Trenerry Cres.
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Conservatives that resist change are always found to be on the wrong side of history.
Time brings change. It is just a question of how long it takes.
_________________
"MAKE COLLINGWOOD GRATE AGAIN" |
|
|
|
|
Hiss
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
|
| Post subject: What | |
|
| Proud Pies wrote: | | David wrote: | No, both assertions are wrong. SZ, nobody's stopping straight people from getting married. As for Hiss, what his argument (?) fails to address (I've long since lost track of when he's being serious and when he's taking the piss!) is that gay rights is not a minority issue. If gays and lesbians were the only people who cared about, say, same-sex marriage, all the protests would be coming from no more than 5 to 10 percent of the population — not a small number of voices when you think of it, but still enough of a minority for their arguments to be lost in amongst the noise.
Instead, we see polls suggesting that over 60% of Australians support marriage equality. Why is this so? Consider the following demographics:
1. Gays and lesbians
2. Parents of gays and lesbians
3. Friends of gays and lesbians - ME
4. People who care about civil liberties - ME
5. People who care about the rights of disenfranchised minorities - ME
6. People who are socially progressive in any way. - HOPE IT'S ME
7. The bulk of 'Generation Y', who have grown up in a culture that doesn't consider homosexuality as immoral or perverse, and treats gays and lesbians as real, visible people.
8. People with no agenda who simply don't see how two people of the same sex getting married is a problem. - DEFINITELY ME
So, no, Hiss, it's not just 'gays' who are demanding we change our social values and institutions. It's the vast majority of decent Australians. - ABSOLUTELY 100% ME
What should really scare the bigots is that, every day — every month, every year — old people are dying or being wheeled off to nursing homes while some teenager turns 18 and replaces them as a voting citizen. And guess what the vast majority of my generation think about same-sex marriage? As some guy once said, the times, they are a-changin'. |
David, I think this is your best post of 2013....... and 2012, and 2011 etc lol |
I will not allow gays or their cheer squads to bully me into changing a view that traditional family christian values are decent and proper. Nature got reproduction absolutely spot on when it designed us to have sex with the opposite gender. The only reason gays are so vocal is because they find comfort in the knowledge our perverted and immoral media harass and bully anyone who dares question the view that gay marriage should be legalised. I would have no problem with gay marriage, if it was not for the intolerant thuggery imposed on those who dare speak for traditional values. Gays and their cheer squads do not tolerate dissent. That really makes me furious. You either agree with them or they insult you with foul abusive terms and seek to shame you. Moreover, I guess that is why I dislike the gay cause so much. Their bitchy intolerance of difference to their ways. So go away and keep your sexual preferences in your bedrooms the same way we straights do.
_________________
I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
|
|
|
|
Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Torino, Italy
|
| Post subject: Re: What | |
|
| Hiss wrote: | | Proud Pies wrote: | | David wrote: | No, both assertions are wrong. SZ, nobody's stopping straight people from getting married. As for Hiss, what his argument (?) fails to address (I've long since lost track of when he's being serious and when he's taking the piss!) is that gay rights is not a minority issue. If gays and lesbians were the only people who cared about, say, same-sex marriage, all the protests would be coming from no more than 5 to 10 percent of the population — not a small number of voices when you think of it, but still enough of a minority for their arguments to be lost in amongst the noise.
Instead, we see polls suggesting that over 60% of Australians support marriage equality. Why is this so? Consider the following demographics:
1. Gays and lesbians
2. Parents of gays and lesbians
3. Friends of gays and lesbians - ME
4. People who care about civil liberties - ME
5. People who care about the rights of disenfranchised minorities - ME
6. People who are socially progressive in any way. - HOPE IT'S ME
7. The bulk of 'Generation Y', who have grown up in a culture that doesn't consider homosexuality as immoral or perverse, and treats gays and lesbians as real, visible people.
8. People with no agenda who simply don't see how two people of the same sex getting married is a problem. - DEFINITELY ME
So, no, Hiss, it's not just 'gays' who are demanding we change our social values and institutions. It's the vast majority of decent Australians. - ABSOLUTELY 100% ME
What should really scare the bigots is that, every day — every month, every year — old people are dying or being wheeled off to nursing homes while some teenager turns 18 and replaces them as a voting citizen. And guess what the vast majority of my generation think about same-sex marriage? As some guy once said, the times, they are a-changin'. |
David, I think this is your best post of 2013....... and 2012, and 2011 etc lol |
I will not allow gays or their cheer squads to bully me into changing a view that traditional family christian values are decent and proper. Nature got reproduction absolutely spot on when it designed us to have sex with the opposite gender. The only reason gays are so vocal is because they find comfort in the knowledge our perverted and immoral media harass and bully anyone who dares question the view that gay marriage should be legalised. I would have no problem with gay marriage, if it was not for the intolerant thuggery imposed on those who dare speak for traditional values. Gays and their cheer squads do not tolerate dissent. That really makes me furious. You either agree with them or they insult you with foul abusive terms and seek to shame you. Moreover, I guess that is why I dislike the gay cause so much. Their bitchy intolerance of difference to their ways. So go away and keep your sexual preferences in your bedrooms the same way we straights do. |
You have a great ass Hiss. Gives me a stiffy every time I see it.
_________________
Buon Giorno |
|
|
|
|
Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Hands off fairy, Hiss is mine  |
|
|
|
|
ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The question of religious tolerance is nothing that the Government could or should touch. Allowing gay marriage, or just call it something else (eg name giving ceremonies for kids) is an easily passed act of parliament. Except like euthanasia and soft drugs etc they allow the weasels to get out of it by the use of a conscience vote. But religion is another thing. They are worldwide corporations started up to convince the masses that fictional and scientifically impossible things happened and we should appease these corporations by giving money and tax free status to them freely. I abhor there input into reasonable debate and there moral superiority whilst yet again another story emerges of them using child labour to work laundries at a profit less than 40 years ago. We should not be encouraging governments to interfere in their social policies such as gay rights but instead setting a social compass steering us away from such irrelevant and criminal institutions. Gay people should be leading the charge and not demanding to be married in buildings that has fostered so much hatred in the past. If footballers want to be in a gay march let them. As long as they are not compelled to do so.
_________________
Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
|
|
|
|
September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
|
| Post subject: Re: What | |
|
| Hiss wrote: | | Proud Pies wrote: | | David wrote: | No, both assertions are wrong. SZ, nobody's stopping straight people from getting married. As for Hiss, what his argument (?) fails to address (I've long since lost track of when he's being serious and when he's taking the piss!) is that gay rights is not a minority issue. If gays and lesbians were the only people who cared about, say, same-sex marriage, all the protests would be coming from no more than 5 to 10 percent of the population — not a small number of voices when you think of it, but still enough of a minority for their arguments to be lost in amongst the noise.
Instead, we see polls suggesting that over 60% of Australians support marriage equality. Why is this so? Consider the following demographics:
1. Gays and lesbians
2. Parents of gays and lesbians
3. Friends of gays and lesbians - ME
4. People who care about civil liberties - ME
5. People who care about the rights of disenfranchised minorities - ME
6. People who are socially progressive in any way. - HOPE IT'S ME
7. The bulk of 'Generation Y', who have grown up in a culture that doesn't consider homosexuality as immoral or perverse, and treats gays and lesbians as real, visible people.
8. People with no agenda who simply don't see how two people of the same sex getting married is a problem. - DEFINITELY ME
So, no, Hiss, it's not just 'gays' who are demanding we change our social values and institutions. It's the vast majority of decent Australians. - ABSOLUTELY 100% ME
What should really scare the bigots is that, every day — every month, every year — old people are dying or being wheeled off to nursing homes while some teenager turns 18 and replaces them as a voting citizen. And guess what the vast majority of my generation think about same-sex marriage? As some guy once said, the times, they are a-changin'. |
David, I think this is your best post of 2013....... and 2012, and 2011 etc lol |
I will not allow gays or their cheer squads to bully me into changing a view that traditional family christian values are decent and proper. Nature got reproduction absolutely spot on when it designed us to have sex with the opposite gender. The only reason gays are so vocal is because they find comfort in the knowledge our perverted and immoral media harass and bully anyone who dares question the view that gay marriage should be legalised. I would have no problem with gay marriage, if it was not for the intolerant thuggery imposed on those who dare speak for traditional values. Gays and their cheer squads do not tolerate dissent. That really makes me furious. You either agree with them or they insult you with foul abusive terms and seek to shame you. Moreover, I guess that is why I dislike the gay cause so much. Their bitchy intolerance of difference to their ways. So go away and keep your sexual preferences in your bedrooms the same way we straights do. |
This is interesting, and forgive me because its Friday night and I've had many a scotch. But David raises yet another well thought through response. He always educates me and that's why I like the chap even thought we disagree on some topics. Yet I see hiss's point too that the minute some speaks against the gay cause they are are immediately bigots even.if the gay cause is over expressed and prejudice in its own right.
In summary however i Still can't see a problem with Gay people living as the rest of us. And though I view Mardis gras etc as overkill........who really gets their nickers in a twist over their right to celebrate who they are. Lamb on Australia Day Anyone?
Now who the **** can I buy a beer?
_________________
No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
________________ |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
