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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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Like mike... If I could be like mike.
Nike ...Just do it. Biatchhh.
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No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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OMG wheres the scotch!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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SZ, I had actually seen you'd more or less already agreed in a summary post somewhere above  Now I'm just trying to drive the baby home because other people seem loathe to let go of the folkloric understanding.
What I'm trying to say (and not necessarily specifically to you) is that the tiny amount of "influence" is so obscure in reality it doesn't warrant mention alongside anything else we bother to consider as influencing the life of a child. The effect is probably somewhere between the flapping wings of that butterfly in the Amazon, and the cashier you meet twice a week.
I'm very happy we're managing to boil it down to such a minuscule level because that eliminates a whole lot of nonsense thrown in as a pretext for interfering in other people's lives arbitrarily.
If we look beyond the footy context I guarantee a lot of the claims about the need to control workers "for the good of the brand", or some such nonsense, will also evaporate on analysis because they too will be grossly exaggerated or simply false, as is always the case when people flail about looking for justification to control others or justify their assumed control over others.
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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| Neil Appleby wrote: |
Certainly the AFL thinks players are role models and go to extreme lengths to control their men. So do the clubs; CEOs would control every waking moment if they could.
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I think the AFL and Clubs know that while players can be positive role models they are not the negative role models the media insist they are.
The extreme lengths used to control players is caused by the media lies insisting players are negative role models.
Clubs and the AFL know it is total bullshit that simply because a footballer gets pissed and does something stupid "impressionable young children" will immediately become alcoholic heroin addicted wife bashers.
The problem with these discussions is the term role model has two meanings. Positive or negative.
Children identifying a footballer as a role model is therefore meaningless.
The questions asked should be Who are your positive role models? Who are your negative role models?
IF children identified footballers as negative role models then society would have problems.
You stated footballers were not role models for yourself growing up. Did you have positive role models? Did you have negative role models?
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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Brenny
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre
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This thread is getting pathetic now.
We made grounds about 8 pages ago by defining on field and off field role models and concluding that a player can be an on field role model.
Now were back 'discussing' the points of page 1 again. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Why now? I don't know if they were. |
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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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| Brenny wrote: | This thread is getting pathetic now.
We made grounds about 8 pages ago by defining on field and off field role models and concluding that a player can be an on field role model.
Now were back 'discussing' the points of page 1 again. |
I think we even progressed past that to girls kissing girls didn't we?
Oh how we have fallen.
I'll drop my bone.
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No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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die4pies 
Homeward bound
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Trenerry Cres.
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polemic
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"MAKE COLLINGWOOD GRATE AGAIN" |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Indeed. Where's yours?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Brenny wrote: | This thread is getting pathetic now.
We made grounds about 8 pages ago by defining on field and off field role models and concluding that a player can be an on field role model.
Now were back 'discussing' the points of page 1 again. |
Ease up, we are on our eighth round of drinks! 
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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die4pies
Homeward bound
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Trenerry Cres.
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| David wrote: | | Indeed. Where's yours? |
Aside from the role parents play in child's development, I don't believe in 'role models'. Thats my polemic. Even teachers as role models is highly debatable.
Furthermore, parents that allow or, even worse, push, their children to 'follow' a religious, political or sporting role model are setting their children up to be failures. Admire and applaud a person's achievments, yes, but never grant that player/person a status other than a human being that works damn hard at what they do.
So the point, to me anyway, is quite moot David.
However, professional sport thrives on lots of 'ordinary' people believing that sportsmen are able to do extraordinary things. It is the cult of hero worship. The building up of 'Role Models' is what puts bums on seats. It provides such a culture shock to these 'ordinary' people when these extroadinary 'super' humans turn out to be really quite ordinary, with the same failings as any other 'ordinary' person.
But I do impore everyone to think of the children! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
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"MAKE COLLINGWOOD GRATE AGAIN" |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Well, you'll find no argument from me. Well said!
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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Not quite sure you understood my post David. I said that footballers were my heroes and not my role-models. That doesn't mean that I think footballers aren't role models to significant numbers of kids and young men and women.
The research I referred to suggested I may be in the majority, but 1 in 5 from the 11,000 sample that said footballers were role-models. That's not an insignificant number.
And Neil, my role-models were my parents, wider family, friends and Uncle Martin from My Favourite Martin. Loved the way his antennae slid up out of his head.
BTW I think it pertinent to note that it's only some journalists who push the role-model line. Interestingly, every time we get poor on-field behaviour or even when there is dissent at poor umpiring, we are told strong action is necessary because of the trickle down effect; junior league players watch and then copy the behaviour of their AFL role-models.
Again, it's on field influence and off field influence. Maybe we should just forget the term role-model and instead opt for the word influence. Or is that just too simple?
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After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Agreed. Influence works for me because that's pretty much what psychology means when it talks of "significant others" (minus neurotic influence based on, e.g., Muriel Heslop's attachment to Abba, or deviant influence based on, e.g., Stui's attachment to octogenarians in red latex bodices ).
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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