The Right to Bear Arms

[swoop42]

^To be honest I'm surprised terrorists have taken to this method in the US with guns so easily available.

In time they will I'm betting.

[Jezza]

I'd assume that people heard about the shootings in Santa Barbara last week involving 22 year old Elliott Rodger. What do people make of the whole situation considering the kid seems very disturbed especially after reading his 141-page manifesto and the reactions that have followed from those who support the idea of tighter gun laws in the US and the feminist movement seems up in arms about this kid's overall attitude toward women as well.

http://www.independent.com/news/2014/may/23/shooting-isla-vista/ - News report about this event

http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto - 141 page manifesto

[Tannin]

Before I heard about it, I used to think that the Americans were completely fnucked in the head gun-nuts. Now I think that the Americans are completely fnucked in the head gun-nuts.

[Jezza]

I've been doing a lot of research into the background of Elliot Rodger and seeing what motivated him to carry out the shootings in Santa Barbara just over a week ago. I also read his 141 page manifesto to gain an insight into what he was thinking and from what I read in the papers, it can be easily established that he had some serious mental issues. I read somewhere that he had Aspergers Syndrome which could potentially explain his difficulty of being able to establish friendships with people and being able to interact normally with others in a social setting. On top of being miserable about being 'rejected' from girls and jealous of other guys, he also seems uncomfortable about being Eurasian.
I also checked out his YouTube account and many of his videos come across as quite disturbing and bordering on frightening in the sense that he had this hate and jealously of others in relationships or who seemed happy. One thing that stands out in many of Elliott's videos is his arrogant attitude. He describes himself as 'magnificent' and the 'perfect gentleman' in many instances and that in itself demonstrates a very narcissistic and arrogant personality of an individual who deemed himself to be superior to others around him, especially men who somehow were getting these 'blonde girls' he was attracted to despite them being inferior to him from his perspective. A trait of narcissism is clearly a 'turn off' for many girls so you can see why many were concerned to be close to him or form friendships with him in the first place.

It's clear that this guy clearly had problems for years and that things became progressively worse as he finished school and he entered college in the US. Despite coming from a privileged background where he lived in a big house, drove a car that most of us could wish we could drive as a first car and generally being lucky with the opportunities provided to him in life, it's clear that his problems couldn't be eradicated despite the privileged upbringing he had. It's a pity on the one hand as well because after reading his manifesto despite it being disturbing in some sense, he did have a talent for writing which could have been encouraged and nurtured further had he had guidance and mentoring along the way.

Other observations I make as well is that many people infer that Elliott's taste in music on his YouTube videos are a potential indication that he's gay. I seriously can't find any evidence to support the notion that the type of music he was listening to determined that he was potentially gay. There's no doubt that he's seriously annoyed with both genders in his videos and in his 141 page manifesto. He's annoyed with females in the sense that they keep 'rejecting' him and that these 'inferior' males are always able to 'get the girl' so to speak, whereas he's continually luckless in this department. Could the idea of girls 'rejecting' him be an indication that he considered the potential possibility that he was 'gay' but he kept blocking out that idea from his head and therefore used the idea of girls 'rejecting' him as a way to base his argument and misery on. Again though, there's no evidence to suggest that he was gay despite it being a reasonable question to ask in light of these events.

In regards to the guns issue, well I've always been in favour of society where gun laws are very tight and strict and I'm glad that this is the case in Australia especially after we saw with the Hoddle Street shootings in 1987 with Julian Knight, the Port Arthur shooting in 1996 with Martin Bryant and of course the Monash University shooting in 2002 which resulted in John Howard initiating tighter gun regulations in Australia.

However in the US, I'm unsure as to whether they can take the same approach as Australia due to the fact that the gun culture is so entrenched into their way of thinking and the idea of having the 'right to bear arms' is protected under the second amendment of the US Constitution. Also would the US be any safer if gun laws became tighter because I find it hard to believe that many US citizens would be willing to give up their weaponry especially since it's protected in the Constitution. I do acknowledge however that reducing the amount of guns that people in the US can access is futile and just fantasy but I certainly believe that a citizen should undergo greater background checks and definitely should have a 'mental check' as I get the impression that it's too easy to obtain a weapon without undergoing certain background checks and provisions to determine where you're 'fit' to carry and own a weapon in the US.

Lastly, the idea that this is a gender issue is ridiculous. There were ironically nearly as many victims from both genders who were deceased from this shooting so clearly the shooter was targeting nearly anyone within his sight regardless of gender. Yes he does admittedly show disdain towards females in his final video but he seems upset at men who are 'inferior' to him but who are capable of forming a relationship with girls, so he targets both genders equally in my opinion, and doesn't discriminate one gender over the other.

I should also say that potentially Elliott's family could have done more to address his problems rather than going for the quick-fix option of buying him a car or encouraging him to attend college or for him to get a job. Clearly they should have kept a closer eye on him but at the same time how could they envisage this would happen especially if they were potentially unaware of what he was broadcasting online. It's even worse that a few weeks before the shooting occurred that his family reported him to the police as they grew concerned of his behaviour but the cops overlooked it because he was a 'nice and polite kid'. Even Elliott in his manifesto admits that had the cops done a more thorough check on him and of his room then he would have been caught as well and this shooting wouldn't have happened since he was carrying out weaponry and had set out his plans to kill on May 24 2014 as he outlined his manifesto. I have no doubt that his family would be devastated and absolutely sympathetic towards the victims and their families.

Anyway, this is just a tragedy all round. Maybe I've overanalysed this but I'm genuinely interested to see what made this guy 'tick' in the first place.

[Tannin]

That's great posting, Jezza. A lot of work went into that. Only two things I'd pick you up on:

(1) As (among many others) the Australian experience proves, simply reducing the number of households with guns reduces the number of shootings. There are lots and lots of other benefits, but just that one alone is massive. In round numbers, if you can halve the number of households with guns, you halve the number of shootings. So any progress is good progress with a clear and worthwhile result.

(2) The constitutional argument is nonsense. (a) The constitutional right to bear arms is explicitly aimed at having a "well-regulated militia". In law, any arms not required for and used as part of a "well-regulated militia" (i.e., a part-time army) are not protected by the constitution. And (b), the US constitution can be and often is changed. In fact there have already been 27 different amendments - that's an average of one every seven years or so. There is absolutely no reason why they can't fix their constitution. Well, no reason apart from Americans being completely fnucked in the head gun-nuts.

[David]

[stui magpie]

Good posting Jezza.

The constitutional situation is as Tannin describes it but that also completely underestimates the depth of feeling of entitlement. It's something that we don't understand in Australia because we don't have anything to relate it to. They grow up with the feeling that they are entitled to own weapons.

Now, add to that the laws for purchase and storage are different from state to state, there are no uniform laws and from my understanding the overall system doesn't support the idea of limiting access based on capacity. Firstly there's little change of getting access to the medical records in a timely manner and then you'd still have a potential constitutional argument.

There's also the fact that state laws have been framed around the assumption that people have guns. Many states have laws that legally allow you to fatally shoot a trespasser without needing to check if they're armed first.

Even discussion about limiting the types of guns or doing gun buy backs gets messy because of how difficult it would be to control the borders. We're an island, it's easier to keep stuff out.

Unfortunately there's no value in us debating the situation cos there's not a damn thing we can do. That's the USA, not Australia and they will make their own way on this. There's way to much vested interest and legacy baggage to make it simple.

[Wokko]

My views on this are opposite to most here, but I'm not going to engage because I can see that it would be a pointless exercise. Anyway, far more important things to post regarding the issue...



*changed the pic, other one a bit big*

[Morrigu]

[stui magpie]

If she was 18, naked and deliberately being provocative when she supposedly knocked him back it wouldn't justify his dodgy beliefs or others having a go at her.

The fact that she was 10 at the time makes it utterly ridiculous.

[David]

Did you really expect this guy to have a completely sane and justifiable reason for taking a gun and shooting random people?

His delusions don't make his case less sad�more so, if anything.

As for the article above, it barely deserves comment, but I'll pull out the most ridiculous quotes:

[AN_Inkling]

^^Yeah, there seemed scant basis for her own article I must say. So the newspaper reported on what the shooter claimed as motivation? Not at all surprising. And they used a bikini shot, which is of course a subliminal message of misogyny, not just something that is known to sell papers.

Luckily all those millions of men who are blaming this girl for the shootings have been put right by this much needed article.

And of course, a 10 year old girl could not possibly bully or tease a 12 year old boy. Boys are so big and strong and girls are small, weak and meek.

[David]

^ Nice pick up on that last line. Interesting inference in an article dedicated in part to 'subtle' misogyny.

[Wokko]

I'd be interested to know if this kid, because age aside he was obviously a kid was on anti depressants or other psychotropic medication. They seem to be the common factor in all these people who flip out and go on shooting sprees. These events seem to be occuring far more regularly than in the past, and firearms have been prevalent in the USA since the 18th century and the most modern firearms have always been available to the population.

I don't know where the MRA/PUA thing has come from with this one either, he doesn't seem to give a shit about any mens issues and didn't appear to be even attempting to 'pick up' anybody. He was only concerned with himself and wanted women to just fall on his dick when they saw he had money and a BMW. He also killed 4 males and 2 females, I know what he supposedly 'intended' but it appears that certain sections of the blogosphere/tumblr feminists want to use the barely cold dead bodies of 6 young victims to plant the flag of their own agenda in.

*edit* An interesting article that looks at the factor of race in Elliot's massacre.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julia-meszaros/elliot-rodger-and-the-effeminization-of-asian-men_b_5401516.html

[Tannin]