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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Jezza wrote: | (1) it's been overlooked that this murder is most likely a racially motivated murder
(2) Trayvon Martin in which his death was caused by George Zimmerman who was a Neighbourhood watch coordinator and he felt threatened by Martin [!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] However, Zimmerman was found not guilty and acquitted on the grounds of self-defence. |
(1) Quite likely, Jezza. There must be a massive amount of fear, anger, and hatred getting around right now.
(2) Who are we kidding here? Zimmerman "felt threatened by Martin" which is why he shot him dead? The heavily armed white Zimmerman felt so] "threatened" by the unarmed black Martin that he stalked him, then he followed him around, and then he shot him stone dead. "Felt threatened"? Give me a break. If he felt threatened, why was he following him around and shooting the shit out of him?
Naturally, when these facts came out, there was massive fear and anger and grief all across America. Black people everywhere saw it (quite sensibly) as affirmation that white people can shoot black people anytime they feel like it and they won't get sent to jail or even slapped across the wrists. But black people can't shoot white people.
Well, these young black people did shoot a white guy. And now they are going to be punished. (Which is as it should be.) But they should be stringing Zimmerman up too, and the corrupt legal system which let Zimmerman off completely scot-free after he murdered an unarmed man.
Only then will there be any hope of reconciliation or peace. But it won't happen 'cause the Yanks are too effing stupid, and too wedded to their stupid guns. It's going to end up like South Africa: the blacks and Hispanics will eventually take over after years and years of struggle and violence and hatred and cruelty and misery - they are already in the majority - and there will be no end to the cycle of violence and misery even when that happens. Just as in South Africa, it will end in tears.
| Jezza wrote: | | (3) That statement by Obama didn't help ...... in the process he's pretty much saying that Zimmerman was 'guilty' despite what the verdict was in the trial. |
Well ... er ... Zimmerman was guilty. It's not as if there is any reasonable grounds to doubt that someone who deliberately follows an unarmed man around and then shoots him dead is guilty, at the very least, of manslaughter. Worse, the consequences of this failure to deliver justice will ripple down the years and lead to many more deaths. This one is just the first of many.
(Actually, it probably isn't the first, just the first one we know about. And obviously, there are many causes of these things and nearly always multiple causes of any individual murder so it's hard to say exactly what lead to what. Maybe these kids would have shot someone anyway; maybe not. But there is no doubt that, overall, Zimmerman's acquittal will wind up costing many lives both black and white.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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Guns are illegal here yet we have one dead in Hoppers Crossing. One person shot in Altona North (which is the norm). And that is just one weekend in Melbourne and we have no such rights.  |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: |  |
At least that makes it a fair fight!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Jezza, what's your reasoning for thinking this killing might have been racially motivated?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| When was this exactly? |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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Before everyone gets into " But they were black" one of the accused in the case of the Aussie in the states is white. It would appear from early statements that is was merely a thrill kill. The victim was in the wrong spot. Nothing racially motivated and any reference to Zimmerman is useless.
They are merely punks.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| stui magpie wrote: | |
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| ronrat wrote: | Before everyone gets into " But they were black" one of the accused in the case of the Aussie in the states is white. It would appear from early statements that is was merely a thrill kill. The victim was in the wrong spot. Nothing racially motivated and any reference to Zimmerman is useless.
They are merely punks. |
Ahh, thankyou Ronrat. In that case, Jezza's post and my reply to it do not apply in this instance. Sadly, they undoubtedly will in others. And with this lunatic attitude to the proliferation of deadly weapons in the USA, the ultimate cost of justice denied will be very, very high.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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Race is almost certainly not the key factor in this case, the USA's stupid gun laws are. A minority of teenage boys behave in stupid destructive violent manners everywhere, but only in the US are they likely to get their hands on lethal weapons.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
The more I read about it the more I believe that race is irrelevant. The ridiculous gun laws are a major contributing factor no doubt, but just availability of guns alone isn't enough for someone to decide to go and shoot someone for shits and giggles.
The prevalence of guns in the USA is nuts, so many people have access to them yet the vast majority of those people don't do shit like this.
Would Julian Knight still have been screwed up if he didn't have access to a gun? Martin Bryant? The gun laws we had at the time were an enabler for them to do what they did but they didn't cause them to he homicidal fruitcakes or thrill killers.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ But nobody's saying that they do. The point is that the laws allow homicidal fruitcakes, thrill killers, revenge killers, paranoiacs, people who temporarily lose their shit and suicide cases to get their hands on lethal weaponry. That's the real problem here. Guns don't kill people, ridiculously easy access to guns kills people.
The fact that the majority of Americans aren't murderers doesn't really mean a lot. Give everyone free access to heroin and you'll probably still only get a minority addicted to it; similarly, put the whole population through army training and not all of them will become brainless killing machines. The amount of shootings they have per capita is evidence enough that the availability of guns is a massive problem.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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Shit, I think the bear is a racist and a misogynist too, just like the rest of society!! Did you see the way he looked at that black woman whilst holding that gun??!! 
**Exit stage left**
(it's called taking the piss - av a laugh.......)
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | ^ But nobody's saying that they do. The point is that the laws allow homicidal fruitcakes, thrill killers, revenge killers, paranoiacs, people who temporarily lose their shit and suicide cases to get their hands on lethal weaponry. That's the real problem here. Guns don't kill people, ridiculously easy access to guns kills people.
The fact that the majority of Americans aren't murderers doesn't really mean a lot. Give everyone free access to heroin and you'll probably still only get a minority addicted to it; similarly, put the whole population through army training and not all of them will become brainless killing machines. The amount of shootings they have per capita is evidence enough that the availability of guns is a massive problem. |
I agree it's a problem, I was responding to Dr Pie's assertion that the US Gun laws are the key factor in the situation.
People kill people, having easy access to guns means that people with the proclivity to kill have easy access to a weapon that enables that. The gun laws enable that, don't cause it.
Look at society or their upbringing for a cause or key factor, and don't mistake this in any way as a defense of the US gun laws because it isn't.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| stui magpie wrote: | People kill people, having easy access to guns means that people with the proclivity to kill have easy access to a weapon that enables that. The gun laws enable that, don't cause it.
Look at society or their upbringing for a cause or key factor, and don't mistake this in any way as a defense of the US gun laws because it isn't. |
^ Awarded Tannin's Elephant Stamp with Gold Star for quality postin'
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | | Jezza, what's your reasoning for thinking this killing might have been racially motivated? |
David, I didn't actually say it was racially-motivated, but surely it had to be questioned nevertheless considering the victim was a white caucasian and the shooters were of African American descent, but the idea it was a racially motivated murder is undermined by the fact that James Johnson 52, was the one who tipped off the cops about where the youngsters were hiding, and Johnson feared his son was the next target of these youngsters and I'm pretty sure Johnson is an African-American himself. Nevertheless, the question had to be asked David.
But yes the main issue here is the gun problem that the United States has, but they never seem to do anything about it even though I know the US government has a lot of constraints due to the second amendment and the fact that the NRA is a powerful organisation within the US. The US is still following the second amendment of the constitution which really no longer serves a purpose in modern day America considering what it was intended for originally as it was related to the time of America's independence and the fact that they feared the British would rule them again.
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