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Slipper resigns...

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3.14159 Taurus



Joined: 12 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:16 pm
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Bruno wrote:


I don't see any reason why my contribution to political threads at the VPT from here on should extend beyond making animal noises.


I can't hardly believe it, somethink written by the Clown that I totally agree with!
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Bruno 



Joined: 19 Sep 2003


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:51 pm
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David wrote:
It seems the nature of partisan debate in most places, Bruno, and you're hardly exempt from that!

Up until recently, one either virulently hated or begrudgingly accepted the Gillard government. I think some from the latter camp have woken up and acknowledged that a) the current lot aren't that bad (except for Nicola #&$%ing Roxon!), and b) it's about time that some of the baseless criticism and mindless bile were fought back against.


Just to confirm David, I am not aiming this at you. Although we tend to come down on different sides on most things you still debate issues. What is boring me are the usual suspects who aren't interested in debating issues, but who rather just come on here and barrack for a political side (and generally be very rude whilst doing it).

One thing I have noticed is that very few posters bother posting about politics anymore. I don't want to join them on the sidelines, but it is getting to the point where I might as well. There is very little stimulating political debate on here anymore.

As for your comment above re. Gillard, as I have said on a few occasions she looks to finally be maturing into an almost decent PM (although she still has a fair way to go IMO). I think Bob Brown getting out of the way has been a huge help. It has allowed her to eschew adolescent Green nonsense.
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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:04 pm
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David wrote:
it's about time that some of the baseless criticism and mindless bile were fought back against.


^ Quoted for truth.

The sheer mindlessness of the hysterical anti-Gillard campaign has been breathtaking, and has left most people who follow politics nonplussed. How do you respond to this toxic mixture of naked animal hatred and constantly repeated lies?

For the first couple of years after it started, people just caved in to it as a rule, and the socially conservative, psychologically anal, politically hard-right hate-merchants had everything their own way. Bile-filled people like Alan Jones and Tony Abbott, and Tea Party types in the USA dominated politics, and started setting the entire political agenda.

Note well, this isn't a left vs right thing. In many ways, the worst impact of the hate and lie merchants was on the right side of politics. Look what it has done to the Republican Party in the USA - the traditional articulate, intelligent conservative voices have vanished from the debate, and quite often even vanished from the parliament , driven out by the growing cancer on their own side. The Republican Party just lost the un-losable election, lost the presidency, lost the Senate, and only holds onto a Congressional majority because of massive gerrymandering. The mad-dog Tea Party types, with their intolerance and their hateful, simplistic extremist views and policies, have crippled the GOP. Now the only constituency the Republicans can really call their own is the Tea Party heartland: fat, white, not-too-bright, full of intolerance and bile, often middle-aged and male. Most of the other constituencies they need to meld together to take government have taken fright at their intolerance and lack of understanding: conservative blacks, conservative hispanics, women, university-graduates, all of these groups have gone to Obama rather than tolerate the awful propaganda and still worse policies of the loud-mouth loonies of the American religious right.

Something similar has happened with the Liberal Party here in Australia. The loudmouth attack-everything policy was very successful for a while in the hands of Abbott, but the terrible lack of diversity in Liberal ranks is starting to bite them now. Turnbull is just about the only voice still standing against their pig-headed madness of negative hate politics allied with loopy flat earth economics. But if Abbott does not win this next poll, both he and his extreme brand of hate-politics are dead and buried. The Liberal Party, which should be anticipating the easiest walk-in victory of its 60-year history, is teetering on the knife-edge of crashing defeat.

(And if it does win, it won't be the Liberal Party anymore; certainly not the forward-thinking, articulate party of Menzies, Gorton, Fraser, and even Howard.)

In short, we are not looking at a left-right problem here. We are looking at a dysfunctional style of vicious campaigning adopted by a small, hard-line minority which has almost succeeded in taking over an entire major political party, and in doing that, has gained media attention and power far, far beyond its puny numbers. That has crippled the honest, articulate, well-informed mainstream of the Liberal Party (ditto the GOP), but it has had a much broader effect than that.

Like the conservative majority, the centre, the left wing, and the green side of politics have all been spooked by it. They have largely given up on talking about ideas and visions and plans and how to make things better. They have been reduced to grimly and sometimes bitterly responding to the gutter politics of the bile merchants.

But that is changing. Little by little, we are seeing a return to worthwhile, positive, interesting, useful political debate which, above all else, is varied. We are seeing that in the United States where the rise of "fact checkers" has cut the ground out from under the Tea Party loonies and made it possible for a much broader, better-informed debate to restart. We are seeing that here in Australia, with a gradual but very marked public turning-away from the repeated vicious attacks and constant lies of the Jones-Abbott brigade; so much so that even Abbott himself is visibly trying to project a more thoughtful, respectful image of himself (though without much success so far), and we are even seeing it here on Nick's, with only two or three hard-line Tea Party types still disrupting discussion with the usual rabid recycled nonsense, and around 20 other regular contributors drowning them out with highly varied and often very worthwhile thoughts. That is the secret to fruitful discussion: diversity. More strength to it!

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Bruno 



Joined: 19 Sep 2003


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:16 pm
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hee hawwww.... hee hawwww... hee hawwww
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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:44 pm
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Bruno wrote:
and barrack for a political side .


That's a really interesting statement Bruno - it seems to me that people ( and I am very broadly generalising here granted) have sort of adopted one team and are almost ballistic in their support for that "team" - not referring just to posts or posters on Nicks.

Why is that? - we have greater access to information, the ability and opportunity to travel and experience other cultures more today than we have ever had and yet the rise of extreme right political parties continues and we seem more intolerant than ever Confused

Are our politicians, our world leaders so lacking in influence and abilility to inspire us that we just "pick a side" and " barrack" or are we just superficial nongs?

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Last edited by Morrigu on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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3.14159 Taurus



Joined: 12 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:45 pm
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There is very little stimulating political debate on here anymore. (bruno)

Stimulating debate?
Do you mean making countless baseless accusations despite an overwhelming facts to the contrary and then crying like a spoilt child when people stop taking you seriously?

If so please keep making the jackass noises, they suit you.
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Bruno 



Joined: 19 Sep 2003


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:40 am
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Morrigu wrote:
Bruno wrote:
and barrack for a political side .


That's a really interesting statement Bruno - it seems to me that people ( and I am very broadly generalising here granted) have sort of adopted one team and are almost ballistic in their support for that "team" - not referring just to posts or posters on Nicks.

Why is that? - we have greater access to information, the ability and opportunity to travel and experience other cultures more today than we have ever had and yet the rise of extreme right political parties continues and we seem more intolerant than ever Confused

Are our politicians, our world leaders so lacking in influence and abilility to inspire us that we just "pick a side" and " barrack" or are we just superficial nongs?


I don't think Australians are more intolerant then ever.

I just don't think Australians (most of whom by the way aren't political) appreciate it when political leaders move a country away from what they generally perceive to be the centre.

Look at how quickly Australia dispatched John Howard when he over-reached towards the right.

Look more recently at how poor Julia Gillard's polling was when she was over-reaching towards the left. It's only now that she is moving back towards the centre that her polling numbers have improved.

Abroad, I would say the rise of right wing parties in say Europe or the Tea Party movement is a direct consequence of what many over there perceive to be overspending by governments.

(Having said this, one thing I have always found inconsistent re. the Tea Party is that they will get all up in arms over spending on health-care, yet seem to be happy for the US to break the bank financing their bulbous military).
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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:51 am
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Bruno wrote:
I just don't think Australians (most of whom by the way aren't political) appreciate it when political leaders move a country away from what they generally perceive to be the centre.

Look at how quickly Australia dispatched John Howard when he over-reached towards the right.


Just so. Of, for another example, you might consider Whitlam. (I'm not sure that Gough actually did swing hard left towards the end of his time, but he was certainly portrayed that way, and paid for it.)


Bruno wrote:
Look more recently at how poor Julia Gillard's polling was when she was over-reaching towards the left. It's only now that she is moving back towards the centre that her polling numbers have improved.


Completee nonsense. Gillard has never been a left-wing party leader. She was further left in her student days, of course, but as PM she has been resolutely centre-right the whole way, and rather unpopular with the left wing of her own party as a result.

She always seems to feel constrained to be very conservative - look at her 19th Century gay marriage views for one example, or the massively pro-billionaire mining tax that let them off scott-free. In the last 6 months or so she has cast off some of the shackles, and just once in a while she backs an issue she really believes in with some passion - i.e., she has moved clearly leftward ... and now that she actually looks as though she sometimes stands for something of consequence, her popularity is soaring.

It is quite absurd to claim that "she is moving back towards the centre", when she has in fact moved in the opposite direction.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:00 pm
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^ Yep, good point on the first part. I think Gillard staked her ground pretty squarely in right-wing territory the day she became prime minister. I don't know, however, whether she has shifted left or people's perception of her has shifted; either way, there's no doubt that she's viewed as more credible these days. I tend to think the irrational hate campaign simply ran out of gas.

Morrigu wrote:
Bruno wrote:
and barrack for a political side .


That's a really interesting statement Bruno - it seems to me that people ( and I am very broadly generalising here granted) have sort of adopted one team and are almost ballistic in their support for that "team" - not referring just to posts or posters on Nicks.

Why is that? - we have greater access to information, the ability and opportunity to travel and experience other cultures more today than we have ever had and yet the rise of extreme right political parties continues and we seem more intolerant than ever Confused

Are our politicians, our world leaders so lacking in influence and abilility to inspire us that we just "pick a side" and " barrack" or are we just superficial nongs?


It seems to be human nature to an extent, but it's definitely a phenomenon I've noticed. I suppose some people's political leanings often get incorporated into their identity; how they define themselves. Whether that equates to basic partisan support, single-issue advocacy or subscription to non-overt political concepts (e.g. "People need to take responsibility for themselves), most people tend to pick a side at some point or other.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I think where a lot of people fail is in their inability to be critical of their own side (not just disagreeing with a few policies of the party they vote for, but also considering and challenging the weaker aspects of their own stated ideology). I think our society could do with a crash course in critical thinking, and needs to learn to ask more questions: "Why do I accept this?"; "What attracted me to this position to begin with?"; and "Are there inconsistencies in my views, and if so why?". It's more difficult than it sounds (particularly given the fact of pride and how much stake can be placed on defending a particular viewpoint), but I think a bit of healthy skepticism never hurts.

If I were in charge of a year 12 debating class, one of the first things I would do is ask the students who, say, they're planning to vote for in the next election, and then ask them to construct a decent argument against their own views. It seem to me like that'd be an extraordinarily positive exercise.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:45 am
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Peter Slipper cleared.

What a toll this act of bastadry by the Liberals has caused this innocent man: depression, reputation, marriage & career. The Mad Misogynist Monk & his bovver boys wouldn't let anything stand in the greed for power. The Liberals have no shame.

Another grubby episode by the Liberals.

Where's honest Mal Brough in all this?

I think a few people / Liberal apologists on Nicks owe this innocent man an apology.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-26/peter-slipper-wins-cabcharge-taxi-conviction-appeal/6262018

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:32 pm
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The guy was a corrupt hack, so corrupt that even other Liberal Party trough divers were uncomfortable with his skimming.

Reading why the appeal was successful hardly shows a glowing exoneration, in fact the judge states:

"I accept that the evidence before the Magistrate was capable of raising, as a rational inference, the proposition that the appellant undertook each of the three journeys for purposes unrelated to parliamentary business," he said.

"She may have been entitled to conclude that it was the most probable inference."

It must be some painful cognitive dissonance when you have to defend a corrupt liberal party underling in order to attack Tony Abbott.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:26 pm
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It's not about attacking Abbott; it's about attacking an ethically bankrupt political culture in which anyone can be thrown under a bus for partisan gain.

We're seeing the same disgraceful treatment dished out to Slipper in the attacks on Gillian Triggs right now, except ten times worse. The Libs have learned their lesson, and that is that if you smear someone for long enough you can destroy them. Let us hope that they are proven spectacularly wrong in this case.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:14 pm
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Wokko wrote:
The guy was a corrupt hack, so corrupt that even other Liberal Party trough divers were uncomfortable with his skimming.

Reading why the appeal was successful hardly shows a glowing exoneration, in fact the judge states:

"I accept that the evidence before the Magistrate was capable of raising, as a rational inference, the proposition that the appellant undertook each of the three journeys for purposes unrelated to parliamentary business," he said.

"She may have been entitled to conclude that it was the most probable inference."

It must be some painful cognitive dissonance when you have to defend a corrupt liberal party underling in order to attack Tony Abbott.


Slipper is innocent of all charges. If you have evidence to back your claim that Slipper is corrupt then you know more than a judge who actually has seen & read the evidence.

The black & white of this is that he is innocent.

If you have evidence of Slippers corruption go tell the Police, go & shout it everywhere. What are the libel laws like in the ACT?

Your selective use of quotes fails to mention that the magistrate got it wrong as judged in a superior court. Just because you think he is corrupt doesn't make him corrupt.

The Liberals & The mad Misogynist Monk (his best man) have a lot to answer for. The consequences of their lust for power is being shown up day by day'.

Perhaps we can ask honest Mal Brough about it too? Perhaps you can remind us what a previous judge said about him?

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:16 pm
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David wrote:
It's not about attacking Abbott; it's about attacking an ethically bankrupt political culture in which anyone can be thrown under a bus for partisan gain.

We're seeing the same disgraceful treatment dished out to Slipper in the attacks on Gillian Triggs right now, except ten times worse. The Libs have learned their lesson, and that is that if you smear someone for long enough you can destroy them. Let us hope that they are proven spectacularly wrong in this case.

I'm not sure that there is any possible apt basis for comparing Gillian to any of the politicians.
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nomadjack 



Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:52 pm
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watt price tully wrote:
Wokko wrote:
The guy was a corrupt hack, so corrupt that even other Liberal Party trough divers were uncomfortable with his skimming.

Reading why the appeal was successful hardly shows a glowing exoneration, in fact the judge states:

"I accept that the evidence before the Magistrate was capable of raising, as a rational inference, the proposition that the appellant undertook each of the three journeys for purposes unrelated to parliamentary business," he said.

"She may have been entitled to conclude that it was the most probable inference."

It must be some painful cognitive dissonance when you have to defend a corrupt liberal party underling in order to attack Tony Abbott.


Slipper is innocent of all charges. If you have evidence to back your claim that Slipper is corrupt then you know more than a judge who actually has seen & read the evidence.

The black & white of this is that he is innocent.

If you have evidence of Slippers corruption go tell the Police, go & shout it everywhere. What are the libel laws like in the ACT?

Your selective use of quotes fails to mention that the magistrate got it wrong as judged in a superior court. Just because you think he is corrupt doesn't make him corrupt.

The Liberals & The mad Misogynist Monk (his best man) have a lot to answer for. The consequences of their lust for power is being shown up day by day'.

Perhaps we can ask honest Mal Brough about it too? Perhaps you can remind us what a previous judge said about him?


You might want to be more careful in picking your white knights wpt. Shocked That Abbott is a scumbag of the first order who through his ex friend under a bus for political purposes doesn't excuse the fact that Slipper is a grade A slime bag himself. These charges being overturned doesn't change any of that. Everyone in parliament knows exactly what Slipper is and no-one will be rushing to his defence.
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