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How to annoy a creationist: feathered dinosaurs

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:06 pm
Post subject: How to annoy a creationist: feathered dinosaursReply with quote

Fun article from the US about dinosaurs and the immortal young-earth creationist lobby here.

Quote:
Of course, not everyone agrees. Some people would rather go back to the days before 1996—when Sinosauropteryx, the first fluffy dinosaur, was announced—to a world of naked dinosaurs. If you’re one of those people who loathe dinosaur feathers, there’s a group that will commiserate with you: creationists.

Creationists are on a campaign to “take dinosaurs back.” Earlier this year, the creationist crackpot Ken Ham, president of Answers in Genesis—the organization that established the fundamentalist funhouse called the Creation Museum—said, “Dinosaurs have been held hostage for decades” by his mortal enemy, the nefarious “secular humanists.” Ham is determined to appropriate dinosaurs for biblical literalists. (The organization’s website even sells a “We’re taking dinosaurs back!” bumper sticker.)

This isn’t about science. It’s about marketing. Ham is sore that natural history museums—many of which actually run research programs and contribute new facts and hypotheses to our understanding of prehistoric life, unlike the Creation Museum—use dinosaurs to help visitors learn about the evolution of what Charles Darwin called “endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful.” Why should people who accept natural selection and geologic time have all the fun? Creationists, in Ham’s view, should use dinosaurs as star attractions to get the public to imbibe the religious swill he and his organization peddle.

Dinosaurs are unlikely symbols of religious fundamentalism. The first dinosaurs evolved about 230 million years ago, and, with the exception of birds, perished about 66 million years ago. Archaic humans didn’t originate until 60 million years later, so it’s not surprising that Stegosaurus, Triceratops, and kin aren’t mentioned in the Bible. Of course, Ham and like-minded literalists would beg to differ. Non-avian dinosaurs were created on Day 6 of creation week 6,000 years ago, with birds being brought into existence on Day 5 (which is out of order with the fossil record). Creationists also fervently believe that Behemoth and Leviathan of the Old Testament were actually dinosaurs, all scientific and historical evidence to the contrary. I’ve never seen creationists propose that we lived in a Dinotopia per se, but a saddle-bearing dinosaur at the Creation Museum is meant not as a fanciful kiddy ride but as a historical reconstruction.

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Last edited by David on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: How to annoy a creationist: feathered dinosaursReply with quote

David wrote:
Fun article from the US about dinosaurs and the immortal young-earth creationist lobby


Oh David, how could you make such an obvious mistake? Don't you ever check for typos? The word is spelt with a double "r", not "rt". Sad

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:43 pm
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LOL,

I confess that i find it amazing that there are people who genuinely believe the Earth and everything around it was created on a whim by an immortal deity and ignore Darwins theory and all the other scientific evidence completely.

I'd love to see someone come out with a theory that could co exist with both religious people and scientists but both would probably argue against it. Razz

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HAL 

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:47 pm
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Smile
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:51 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
LOL,

I confess that i find it amazing that there are people who genuinely believe the Earth and everything around it was created on a whim by an immortal deity and ignore Darwins theory and all the other scientific evidence completely.

I'd love to see someone come out with a theory that could co exist with both religious people and scientists but both would probably argue against it. Razz


I reckon there's already such a theory, and it's quite widespread. If you generally accept the validity of the scientific process while acknowledging that there may still be a metaphysical realm of some kind out of our current understandings (both sensible presumptions), any non-literalist religious belief becomes plausible, at least in some sense.

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:08 pm
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Yup.

Accept the science and accept that the old testament is parables not a documentary and religion and science can coexist on a number of levels.

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Tannin Capricorn

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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:16 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
I'd love to see someone come out with a theory that could co exist with both religious people and scientists but both would probably argue against it. Razz


Oh, this exists, Stui, and is by far the most widely supported view amongst Christians worldwide. Whether you ask the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury (or most other Christian leaders), you will get much the same answer: no-one outside the loopy nutcase fringe denies natural evolution; the creation account in Genesis is, according to mainstream Christian thought, allegorical and (like much of the Old Testament) needs to be read with care and a little understanding of the time and culture which produced it. Evolution, like gravity and conservation of energy, is simply one of the processes God used (and still uses) to create and sustain the universe.

Only the genuine fundamentalist whackos have a problem with any of that. But then, to be fair, they are quite consistent - there isn't much that the fundamentalist whackos don't have problems with.

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3.14159 Taurus



Joined: 12 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:35 pm
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Science does it's best to stay out of religion.
Creationists should extend science the same courtesy.
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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:13 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
LOL,

I confess that i find it amazing that there are people who genuinely believe the Earth and everything around it was created on a whim by an immortal deity and ignore Darwins theory and all the other scientific evidence completely



The current leader of the Libs says hello Wink Razz

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:27 pm
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^

Get back to the kitchen, wench. Razz

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Pies4shaw Leo

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:15 am
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My son is doing year 10 Science at an inner-Melbourne State school. He told me yesterday that his class is presently studying what he referred to as "Charles Darwin's beliefs about evolution".

I quizzed him on this a little more closely and it appears that (at least) his science teacher felt compelled to pander to the lunatic fringe on this issue by, first, warning students at the end of year 9 that year 10 Science will deal with the Theory of Evolution ("which some among you may find offensive") and, secondly, by emphasising in teaching the year 10 course that evolution is "a theory" which is "not yet proven".

I am looking forward to my son learning about rust in Chemistry next year. Hopefully, equal time will be given to the phlogiston theory there. Oxygen is against my religious beliefs and I am offended by the concept. Shocked

Is there no end to the tripe up with which we have to put in the name of "tolerance" of the superstitions of the semi-literate? What happened to the most important human right of all - the right to call an idiot an idiot and dismiss their nonsense as, well, nonsense?
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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:42 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
My son is doing year 10 Science at an inner-Melbourne State school. He told me yesterday that his class is presently studying what he referred to as "Charles Darwin's beliefs about evolution".

I quizzed him on this a little more closely and it appears that (at least) his science teacher felt compelled to pander to the lunatic fringe on this issue by, first, warning students at the end of year 9 that year 10 Science will deal with the Theory of Evolution ("which some among you may find offensive") and, secondly, by emphasising in teaching the year 10 course that evolution is "a theory" which is "not yet proven".

I am looking forward to my son learning about rust in Chemistry next year. Hopefully, equal time will be given to the phlogiston theory there. Oxygen is against my religious beliefs and I am offended by the concept. Shocked

Is there no end to the tripe up with which we have to put in the name of "tolerance" of the superstitions of the semi-literate? What happened to the most important human right of all - the right to call an idiot an idiot and dismiss their nonsense as, well, nonsense?


Are we going backwards? When i learned about it at High School in the early 80's there was none of that crap, it was just scientific theory. Confused




Quote:
What happened to the most important human right of all - the right to call an idiot an idiot and dismiss their nonsense as, well, nonsense?


I think the PC Brigade have got that one too. I believe the current politically correct term is "Cognitively challenged" Sad Wink Razz

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3.14159 Taurus



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:56 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
My son is doing year 10 Science at an inner-Melbourne State school. He told me yesterday that his class is presently studying what he referred to as "Charles Darwin's beliefs about evolution".

I quizzed him on this a little more closely and it appears that (at least) his science teacher felt compelled to pander to the lunatic fringe on this issue by, first, warning students at the end of year 9 that year 10 Science will deal with the Theory of Evolution ("which some among you may find offensive") and, secondly, by emphasising in teaching the year 10 course that evolution is "a theory" which is "not yet proven".


Theory, definition...
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.
Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. This is significantly different from the word "theory" in common usage, which implies that something is unsubstantiated or speculative.

He might know little about the English language but Evolution is definitely a theory.


Last edited by 3.14159 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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laird 



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Location: Perth

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:02 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
LOL,

I confess that i find it amazing that there are people who genuinely believe the Earth and everything around it was created on a whim by an immortal deity and ignore Darwins theory and all the other scientific evidence completely.

I'd love to see someone come out with a theory that could co exist with both religious people and scientists but both would probably argue against it. Razz


Darwin was a joke. Weak man that knew the truth and struggled always with it. Simply because he was an arrogant self centred knob who thought he was greater. Not the last either.

Personally I do not deal in theory - only fact. However science and religion do co exist. Science is from the minds of the created. Science is necessary to explore and ask questions not understood (which is good).

"The chances that life just occurred on earth are about as unlikely as a typhoon blowing through a junkyard and constructing a Boeing 747".
( New Scientist )

(Astronomer) Fred Hoyle has calculated that the chance of life happening by accident is 1 in 10(40,000). That is a "1" with 40,000 noughts after it, a figure so enormous that it amounts to a total impossibility.

These are honest men, who are not, in the words of one scientist, " encased in scientific dogmatism." They are willing to be honest with the facts and recognise the limitations of science.

Whilst you wait on more theories from your fellow man - I, personally will continue on with the truth.

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3.14159 Taurus



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:09 pm
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After reading the above post I am even more of the opinion that dinosaurs (feathered or other-wise) still exist.
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