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Mossi 
Joined: 20 May 2002
Location: Vittorio Veneto TV Italy
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| In that 77 season he showed more class than anyone iv"e ever seen! Even Wayne Carey was no were near as dominant! Yep Tuck did hit him prior to the incident that rubbed Phil out! Coaches knew that Phil would retaliate, and no doubt they worked on that flaw he had. |
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ClokingDevice
Joined: 14 May 2012
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| Joeboy wrote: | | in the game against hawthorn, phil carmen,s first qtr was the best individual quarter of footy one could wish to witness. |
Nope.. the last quarter against St Kilda was the best of all time by any player for any club.. he kicked a left footer spinning out of a blind turn from 60 metres out
I saw a god play that day.. he did things that defy description
Monday the back page of the Herald had a picture of him cleaning his white boots and the giant headline was:
CARMANWOOD
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We will feast on their bones |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | boofa wrote: | Phil COULD play alright dont worry about that.....
Unfortunately , Phil played in the best interests of Phil.
He cost Collingwood at least 2 flags with his undisciplined play.
The best comparison i could give you is Brendan Fevola, ALL CLASS , NO BRAINS.................................
The biggest Letdown player of all time at the pies was "Fab Phil" |
Sorry boofa, but that comparison with Fevola is so wrong!
Fevola was a lazy self centred player who did not train hard enough and was never fully fit. Fabulous Phil Carman was a fitness fanatic who trained far harder than all his teammates, which is one reason why he was not liked by a few players - because his professionalism made them look like amateurs. His only fault, was that he suffered from white line fever and unfortunately git rubbed out too many times. |
Also, from the interview, someone who liked to do things his way. Not going to work under a disciplinarian like Hafey. Preferred to train in the morning, so would often leave the club evening training sessions early, and refused to return when asked to by Hafey.
An interesting interview from the angle of individuals in a team sport. Phil struggled with it back in the 70s He'd certainly have an even tougher time of it now. Though, he does say that the problem was that he got away with doing his own things early and when he was finally pulled up on it, it was too late.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| ClokingDevice wrote: | | Joeboy wrote: | | in the game against hawthorn, phil carmen,s first qtr was the best individual quarter of footy one could wish to witness. |
Nope.. the last quarter against St Kilda was the best of all time by any player for any club.. he kicked a left footer spinning out of a blind turn from 60 metres out
I saw a god play that day.. he did things that defy description
Monday the back page of the Herald had a picture of him cleaning his white boots and the giant headline was:
CARMANWOOD |
Yes, I was there that day, and that was the best single Collingwood game I have ever seen. That last quarter was such a monument of football brilliance, that to this day i feel that when i return to Moorabbin, there will be an obelisk with Carman's name on it about 40m out from goal. Phil was helped hugely that day by a quarter of similar brilliance from the great Barry Price. I can't remember a quarter of football like it, before or since. Incredibly, George Young kicked 9 at the other end in a losing side. Those were the days, my friend....
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Harrysz
Joined: 15 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne
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Pies4shaw is correct in saying that Phil Carman shouldn't be blamed for Collingwood not winning the 1977 Grand Final. When a team's 27 points in front at three quarter time it should go ahead and win.
But Barassi made some changes at three quarter time (Dench to the forward line) and Collingwood couldn't cope.
I seem to vaguely recally another Grand Final when Barassi made a change that Collingwood couldn't cope with...when was that?....hmmm
Anyway, if Carman had been there in the replay which we lost by 27 points we may have won.
Collingwood didn't get Bernie Quinlan because it wasn't prepared to match Fitzroy's offer of an additional $5,000. That decision cost us at least 2 premierships; 1978 and 1979. Great decision that!
Carman was the only dominant centre half forward we had in that whole period. You've got to go back to Murray Weideman to find another one. We didn't find another dominant centre half forward until Travis Cloke. |
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regan is true fullback
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Location: Granville. nsw
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Sadly there is another twist in the tale. In 1978, Barassi recruited a centre half back specifically to stop Phil.
As I remember the radio commentary of the time:
"Ross Glendinning - he looked like a Greek god and he played like one"
-when he beat Carman. Collingwood didn't beat North for nearly 2 years, when Phil was replaced by Rene Kink and "Wonky Knees" Edwards.
But once big Ross came on the scene, Phil's aura of invincibility was finished.
But football is a funny game, Barassi missed out on a third premiership at North, despite his recruiting half of Australia, including Dempsey from Footscray, in a manner that Collingwood was too timid to do with Quinlan. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The first time Carman played on Glendinning, Glendinning didn't see which way he went (round 5, 1978 at Arden Street). Carman played pretty much a lone hand in the forward-line that day, John Burns kicked 7 goals for North, Baker kicked 5 (again) and Collingwood lost by 9 points.
They played each other twice more that season. The first was round 16, when he started out like a house on fire kicking to the railway end, then promptly ran out of puff half-way through the first quarter (after missing rounds 11 through 15) and barely kept up with the play. The second was the Preliminary Final, which was his last game for the Club. Again, he wasn't match fit (he came on in the Qualifying Final against Hawthorn after the match was lost because he wasn't fit enough to play the whole game and then played quite well against the Blooz the following week).
Carman was plagued with poor form and injuries in the second half of 1978 (he played rounds 16, 19, half of the QF and then the First Semi and PF). I don't know that Glendinning was much of a factor - Phil was by then well and truly on his way out of Collingwood.
Afetr that, he played against North once while he was at Melbourne (I'm fairly sure Glendinning played forward in that game), 3 times while at Essendon (Glendinning didn't play against him in 1980 and in 1981, Phil barely touched the ball against anyone all season). In 1982, he played for North. He wasn't too bad that year (I know - I went to most of North's games to see him play) but by then he was 31 or 32 and he'd lost his leap and pace. |
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cooldewd 
DEFENDER OF THE FAITH
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: Wrenville
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | The first time Carman played on Glendinning, Glendinning didn't see which way he went (round 5, 1978 at Arden Street). Carman played pretty much a lone hand in the forward-line that day, John Burns kicked 7 goals for North, Baker kicked 5 (again) and Collingwood lost by 9 points.
They played each other twice more that season. The first was round 16, when he started out like a house on fire kicking to the railway end, then promptly ran out of puff half-way through the first quarter (after missing rounds 11 through 15) and barely kept up with the play. The second was the Preliminary Final, which was his last game for the Club. Again, he wasn't match fit (he came on in the Qualifying Final against Hawthorn after the match was lost because he wasn't fit enough to play the whole game and then played quite well against the Blooz the following week).
Carman was plagued with poor form and injuries in the second half of 1978 (he played rounds 16, 19, half of the QF and then the First Semi and PF). I don't know that Glendinning was much of a factor - Phil was by then well and truly on his way out of Collingwood.
Afetr that, he played against North once while he was at Melbourne (I'm fairly sure Glendinning played forward in that game), 3 times while at Essendon (Glendinning didn't play against him in 1980 and in 1981, Phil barely touched the ball against anyone all season). In 1982, he played for North. He wasn't too bad that year (I know - I went to most of North's games to see him play) but by then he was 31 or 32 and he'd lost his leap and pace. |
Carman's opponent in the 1978 PF was not Glendenning, it was Keith Grieg. Barrassi knew that the umpires hated Phil's guts and they loved Kieth Grieg like he was an angel.
End result? Keith Grieg recieved FOURTEEN free kicks that day. Probably 12 of them for no good reason other than he had some DNA of Carman on him.
Hafey was criticised for not shifting Carman to the wing or on ball to so as not to keep giving away free kicks that broke down attack after attack.
We only lost be 12 points, so the umpires murdered us that day big time.
Twiggy Dunne kicked four goals in his last ever game in Black & White.
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© The Dude ®
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King Jr |
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neil
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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Carmens problem was he was born in SA and due to the stupid recruiting rules of the day could not play for a Victorian team. So he went to a SA team who ruined him he was basically untrainable after that.
The Collingwood administrations of the sixties and seventies had a long history of deflecting all blame from themselves and onto others. The shortsighted refusal to properly recruit or develop Victoria Park can be held entirely to those administrations.
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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cooldewd
DEFENDER OF THE FAITH
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: Wrenville
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| neil wrote: | Carmens problem was he was born in SA and due to the stupid recruiting rules of the day could not play for a Victorian team. So he went to a SA team who ruined him he was basically untrainable after that.
The Collingwood administrations of the sixties and seventies had a long history of deflecting all blame from themselves and onto others. The shortsighted refusal to properly recruit or develop Victoria Park can be held entirely to those administrations. |
You are way off the mark there Neil!
Carman was born and raised in Victoria in the Western Districts town of Edenhope.
Collingwood recruiters brought Carman down to Victoria Park when he was 15 years old (I think 1966) to give him a look around and a taste.
This is where the story takes a left turn. After bringing Carman to Vic Park at 15, Collingwood basically assumed the kid would come back on his own free will as soon as he was ready. In the mean time Norwood from SA offered to house him in Adelaide and to put him through an elite private school to finish his education. Collingwood didn't seem to care.
Within a couple of years as Carman started tearing up the SANFL, Collingwood suddenly remembered that this was one and the same kid that they had invited down to Vic Park some years before...but, Norwood were paying the kid more than Collingwood was prepared to pay, so there was no desperate hurry for Carman to come to Melbourne.
Every year we used to hear..."don't worry, next year we are going to get Phil Carman".
When Carman eventually arrived, it was as if the messiah had ordained that Collingwood would build the greatest premiership winning combination ever to walk onto a field.
In 1975, we had Wayne and Maxy Richardson, Barry Price, Len Thompson, a young Peter Moore, a recuperating Johnny Greening, the legendary Peter McKenna, high flying Billy Picken, Robert Hyde, Twiggy Dunne, the mercurial teenager Rene Kink, dashing Phil Manassa, gutsy rover Ray Shaw, the inspirational Ronnie Wearmouth....if that isn't enough to make you catch your breath...we then had Ricky Barham and Peter Daicos on the very near horizon!!!
Throw Carman into that lot and surely flags would happen?
Well, we know for different reasons ranging from career ending injuries (Greening, Hyde), to in fighting etc meant that we never got to see that dream team on the park at the same time.
When all is said and done, if fate had been kinder Carman, Greening, Daicos, Barham, Kink and Moore would have played in flags together in the late 70's early 80s'...that is how it should have been...but sadly, never was.
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© The Dude ®
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King Jr |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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After watching this episode, can I please issue a plea to the team at Fox: PLEASE make Open Mike a one hour show for every episode. They are GREAT to watch for a football fan!
I could watch old footage of Carman in black and white for a whole hour, let alone the interview with him. Sheahan obviously does a lot of research for his interviews. Such a pity that we only get half an hour's worth.
More, please!
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I am vengeance. I am the night. I am MagpieBat. |
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Harrysz
Joined: 15 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne
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Mossi wrote that Tuck hit carman and Carman hit Tuck in retaliation.
I'd never heard that before so I watched "Open Mike" with interest.
Carman didn't mention being hit first. He said something like "I had to decide whether to go for the ball or to whack Tuck. So I whacked him."
That was it? Yes it was. Today we would call that a brain fade.
Another interesting thing that came out of that interview was Carman's admission that if he wanted to finish training, he would just leave the track irrespective of what the coach wanted. This drove Tom Hafey mad but Murray Weideman let him get away with it.
The-same-rule-for-everyone as recently imposed by the club works wonders for culture and performance. |
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Mossi
Joined: 20 May 2002
Location: Vittorio Veneto TV Italy
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| Harrysz wrote: | Mossi wrote that Tuck hit carman and Carman hit Tuck in retaliation.
I'd never heard that before so I watched "Open Mike" with interest.
Carman didn't mention being hit first. He said something like "I had to decide whether to go for the ball or to whack Tuck. So I whacked him."
That was it? Yes it was. Today we would call that a brain fade.
Another interesting thing that came out of that interview was Carman's admission that if he wanted to finish training, he would just leave the track irrespective of what the coach wanted. This drove Tom Hafey mad but Murray Weideman let him get away with it.
The-same-rule-for-everyone as recently imposed by the club works wonders for culture and performance. |
All this happened 35 years ago! But like Joeboy I recall Tuck getting into Carman early it may not have been a punch but knocked Phil around. I wouldn't take Carman's words that he didn't know who he was taking out as true, personally speaking he knew who he was taking out and it happend late in the first quater and not early in the match as Carman said. Carman detested close checking with physical tone Tuck knew it the Hawks knew it and they were out to upset and get Phils mind on other Things. |
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lushbeast
Joined: 10 May 2012
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I am 47 years old and have been going to the watch collingwood since I was five .Phil Carmen is the most gifted footballer I have seen in a collingwood jumper!!!!.We have had a lot of fantastic player`s over the years but I have never seen anyone change a game like Phil Carmen in so short a time.People forget how heavily he was targeted by opposition clubs,trying to stop him and trying to suck him in.Extremely tough era as well.
The closest player for inspirational individual effort`s besides Carmen, would be Darren Millane .The reason he is such a controversial figure is that the average collingwood supporter knew how good he could be and never got to see enough of it.We were hungry for more!!!
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the man your mother warned you about |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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Just thought i'd bump this 2012 thread while we are all Carmanising...
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