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So. What's for Dinner?

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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:37 pm
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made a pot of pea and ham soup this arvo, and tonight decided to repurpose some leftovers.

Had 2 chicken fillets in the fridge left over that I didn't cook Sunday, some leftover mushroom sauce I cooked last night and half a jar of cream.

So I sliced the chicken fillets across the grain into 2cm thick medallions and fried them in some butter and olive oil.

reheat the mushies to go on top.

Slice a few spuds to make scalloped potatoes with a bit of olive oil and butter in the microwave, bit of garlic and herb salt and the remaining cream, toss and let settle.

Dinner served. Yum.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:41 pm
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Do you like to cook?
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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:25 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Socialism at work.

It's "NOT real socialism, it's state capitalism" says every socialist.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:05 pm
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mashed spuds steamed veg and curried chevups - except i forgot the curry sauce mix, so i improvised, spicy taco sauce, tomato sauce and curry powder, eldest and hubby loved it, dont lose the recipe he says, hmm, well um, you just know it will never taste the same again!
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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:20 pm
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Did roast stuffed chicken roll, with sweet potatoes and steamed veg for the fambly tonight.

sharknado just looked at it and said yuck. Wouldn't eat a bite. So I took a photo of him and his dinner and messaged his mum, saying I tried.

She asked me to send it home to her, she'd make sure he ate it. Dunno if that will work, but I did it. Put it in a container and his dad delivered it to her.

Also did a brisket in the slow cooker for mum. I'm heading up to Toc tomorrow and she won't use the gas when I'm not here. Just not comfortable.

Put some onions, celery, carrot, garlic under the meat after browning it, cooked it for 7 hours with 500ml of beef stock. Meat came out beautiful. Put the stick blender into the vegetables and juice and made a sauce from it. Yum.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:18 pm
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Jezza wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Socialism at work.

It's "NOT real socialism, it's state capitalism" says every socialist.

In contrast, when socialism first came to the United States, it came in the form of government handouts to Wall Street. "It's not real socialism," said the American capitalists. "Wall Street is too big to fail."
And the Wall Street suits had champagne and caviar for dinner.
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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:49 pm
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K wrote:
Jezza wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Socialism at work.

It's "NOT real socialism, it's state capitalism" says every socialist.

In contrast, when socialism first came to the United States, it came in the form of government handouts to Wall Street. "It's not real socialism," said the American capitalists. "Wall Street is too big to fail."
And the Wall Street suits had champagne and caviar for dinner.


Before they dived out windows?

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:20 pm
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^ indeed, Stui. People get very confused about the difference between bailing out the banks and bailing out bank owners/shareholders. Lloyds Bank share price in 2006 : £6.50. Now, 12 years later : £0.70. Royal Bank of Scotland shares 2006 : £5.50. Now £0.56 (quoted higher because of a 5:1 consolidation). In real terms, this is a loss of about 95% of Capital. Lehman Brothers shares were $80 in 2006. No tears for them, but the idea that the government bailed out the bank owners is not really true. Some employees remained overpaid, but not in state-owned banks. For the others, that’s a problem for the owners.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:34 am
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If the corporations go bankrupt, necessarily their employees need to look elsewhere for a job. If taxpayers' money is pumped into them, no strings attached, they can keep doing whatever they were doing previously, including the payment of exorbitant salaries and bonuses. I am not aware of any salary cuts in the sector.
From memory, it was reported that the direct contribution to Wall Street from the US government was over $4 trillion, most of which was not repaid. Peer-reviewed work by economists (at Princeton, perhaps?) put the total contribution to Wall Street from the taxpayers at over $20 trillion. Let's see if I can even type that many zeros: > $20 000 000 000 000.

If only the VFL had pumped money into the Collingwood Football Club when Ranald et al. were on the verge of bankrupting the club. Then the players would not have had a 20% salary cut forced upon them, the General Manager would not have had to be sacked, and Ranald et al. could have continued just throwing money away on ridiculous transfer fees.
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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:37 am
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Ugh, my stomach is rumbling,

On a side note I was really disappointed with Wall Street, I have no idea how they make it look so big in movies like Die hard, it’s just a couple of blocks.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:46 am
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K wrote:
If the corporations go bankrupt, necessarily their employees need to look elsewhere for a job. If taxpayers' money is pumped into them, no strings attached, they can keep doing whatever they were doing previously, including the payment of exorbitant salaries and bonuses. I am not aware of any salary cuts in the sector.
From memory, it was reported that the direct contribution to Wall Street from the US government was over $4 trillion, most of which was not repaid. Peer-reviewed work by economists (at Princeton, perhaps?) put the total contribution to Wall Street from the taxpayers at over $20 trillion. Let's see if I can even type that many zeros: > $20 000 000 000 000.

If only the VFL had pumped money into the Collingwood Football Club when Ranald et al. were on the verge of bankrupting the club. Then the players would not have had a 20% salary cut forced upon them, the General Manager would not have had to be sacked, and Ranald et al. could have continued just throwing money away on ridiculous transfer fees.


I don’t want to defend bank traders or senior execs. I’ve said many times that they are among the most parasitic, incompetent and undeserving class of people in the economy. But allowing banks to go bust was the route to the 1930s, so saving them was the right thing to do - and bank shareholders were not bailed out. I would be interested in the source behind the $20 trillion you quote. It does not fit with any analysis I have seen. It may be the implied backstop to all bank liabilities, which is nothing like a financial transfer.

The bank bailouts were necessary because banks are utilities. We would bail out water or power companies as well, if necessary. In the bailed out UK banks, bonuses have rightly been drastically curtailed. At Lehman Brothers and Northern Rock, your wish was granted. We need to understand what really happened and why, if we are to learn real lessons. In the 1930s bank failures And their consequences saw the rise of Fascism, global war and mass murder. If we resort to populist slogans, we will make it impossible for people like Geithner, Paulson, Darling et al to do the smart, life-saving thing next time.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:58 pm
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I doubt the UK and US situations are all that similar. All those figures I wrote about were from memory, so I'd need some interested VPTer to poke around and tell us where it comes from...

But apparently the government act is called TARP and I'm right now seeing that some Forbes journo is not a fan (see below). I'm assuming the "Special Inspector General for TARP" is some government guy, so if that summary admits a $17 trillion dollar commitment, it wouldn't actually surprise me if the true figure is now past (say) $30 trillion and climbing without end.

Mike Collins, Forbes (July 14, 2015) wrote:
...
The Special Inspector General for TARP summary of the bailout says that the total commitment of government is $16.8 trillion dollars with the $4.6 trillion already paid out. Yes, it was trillions not billions and the banks are now larger and still too big to fail. But it isn’t just the government bailout money that tells the story of the bailout. This is a story about lies, cheating, and a multi-faceted corruption which was often criminal.
...

The justice department wants $5 billion in restitution from Standard and Poor’s for its part in falsifying ratings.
...

It has been proven that the American Division of the HSBC bank did money laundering for Mexican drug cartels to the tune of $881 billion according to the Justice Department. The penalty to this bank for blatant corruption was $1.9 billion and the New York Times laments that HSBC was too big to indict. Nobody goes to jail at a time when an unemployed black person gets 10 years for robbing a minute mart.
...

Both JP Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs worked with hedge funds to bet against the toxic mortgages after the crash had started. They made money by selling short on the financial catastrophe they had created. JP Morgan was fined $296.9 million and Goldman Sachs was fined $550 million for actions
...

The operating principles of the big banks is a cesspool of greed, ethics and criminal intent and they give a very bad name to free market capitalism. During the housing bubble Wall street was considered the heart and soul of free market capitalism, but when they were in danger of total collapse they fell on their knees as socialists, begging the government and tax payers to bail them out
...

The problem is that the big Banks have enormous lobbying power to buy off Congress.
...

Wall Street’s gambling created a giant hole in our economy. In just a few months 8 million people lost their jobs and it created the greatest recession since the Great Depression. The choice is clear, either we regulate the big banks like we did during the New Deal or they will eventually destroy both themselves and the economy.
...



https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/07/14/the-big-bank-bailout/#20ccafe12d83


It's enough to make one choke on one's steak-and-kidney pie.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 pm
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I read the article (and looked at the SIGTARP website, where I could find no such figure), but i don’t believe it. TARP was legislated at $700B, of which 350B was disbursed, and the assets purchased were ultimately sold at a profit. There are references for that all over reputable sites on the net. Mr Collins makes a bold statement about some “great secret” involving a sum equivalent to the entire US national debt, but provides no authoritative reference to support it. I regularly read the Ft, WSJ and the Economist, and I have never seen such figures referenced elsewhere.

As I said, I have no interest in cheering for the banks, many of whose employees are a blight on the economy and on ordinary decency. But they were the equivalent of Lawson’s loaded dog in 2008, and allowing them to explode would have been an act of indescribable recklessness and folly. What was done was not Socialism, it was simply good government which was pushed through despite populist tub-thumping and ultimately cost the taxpayer nothing. If we misrepresent it, then it’ll be hard to do again the next time it happens. And history shows that there will be a next time.

The thing that really matters is that the shareholders got a proper haircut, which they certainly did in the US and UK. They were not really bailed out, which was quite proper.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:11 pm
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Assuming there really is an official position called the "Special Inspector General for TARP" and there really is some sort of document called the "Special Inspector General for TARP summary", I'd be rather surprised if some journo just made up something about its contents. There is also that aforementioned economics paper or papers (which I'm pretty sure has no connection to Mr. Collins) to contend with.

Hey, you three guys who started this dinner-table conversation, can you find these papers and documents for us?!?

Whatever the money thrown at them, giving it without asking for anything in return (regulation, some heads to roll, for starters) seems nonsensical.

Meanwhile, can someone pass me the gravy?
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:26 pm
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^ There is a SIGTARP. Its website is voluminous so there might be something there that I can’t find. I think the issue will be in Collins’ word $20 trillion “commitment” (which is probably like saying that your house insurer just committed to buy all the houses it’s insured) and $4.5 trillion “paid out” (which I suspect will prove to be highly collateralised loans paid out via short-term revolving credits). I read a lot of quality financial news, and the figures he quotes are so outlandish and unprecedented as figures for a bank bail out that I question their meaning.

By the way, did I say that I really dislike the banks ? They are venal, incompetent, useless, arrogant, psychopathic and parasitic on the makers’ economy. But unfortunately they exist, and they are like Lawson’s loaded dog : We cannot let the mad dog explode in the gunpowder shed.

Sorry, it is off thread, but I didn’t start it ! Wink David is usually very kind in splitting these things but he’s been unusually quiet. I hope he is ok.

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