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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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When my wife & I fly business class on our monthly jaunts to Europe we too find Emirates a lot cheaper!
Like you I read both the Hun & the Age as well as a few others on line these days. Stopped getting the Age delivered though I must say. But I do get the Thursday edition for the Green guide & we get both on Saturday. (I'm a sucker for being a Collingwood supporter because I read too many stupid articles about our team & I'm not discerning enough nor smart or strong enough not to buy them - in season- is it an obsession or a compulsion or both)?
I reckon it's the symbolism of getting a pay rise when wanting to dismiss staff (forget the rationale) all in the same time frame, makes us think he's a smug pr*ck. Also the perception of being too clever by half, or furtive about the instant closing of an airline. Forget the posturing, there is something obcene about having ones bonuses attached to dismissing staff - usually we associate this with the banking industry.
I was on a late shift & managed to watch the senate hearing with Joyce, he handled himself well. Bob Brown was the most articulate, impressive & the most effective in dismantling Joyce's spin - I thought - he was the only one that Joyce was uncomfortable in answering precisely because Brown used Joyces comments back on him - Joyce was visibly off balance by Browns questioning - not the manner but the content. Intelligent man Bob Brown.
My comments much ealier (in number form above) are in partial agreement with the writer but for mine the most impressive is Paul Barry's that I've read so far.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Black_White
Joined: 19 Mar 2001
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Black_White wrote: | You need to watch more Gruen stui
Everything you posted about Joyce is exactly what the advertising guru's recommended be done to get him out of the shite
I reckon I might start saying i am a life long liberal voter, after all rewriting history is that easy |
Does that make it less true? |
Makes it about as true as me voting scum....err..umm..Liberal.
If this was a Labour Government you would be shouting "SPIN" from the rooftops.
Say it wouldn't be so. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Black_White wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Black_White wrote: | You need to watch more Gruen stui
Everything you posted about Joyce is exactly what the advertising guru's recommended be done to get him out of the shite
I reckon I might start saying i am a life long liberal voter, after all rewriting history is that easy |
Does that make it less true? |
Makes it about as true as me voting scum....err..umm..Liberal.
If this was a Labour Government you would be shouting "SPIN" from the rooftops.
Say it wouldn't be so. |
Isn't it a Labor Government? 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: |
When my wife & I fly business class on our monthly jaunts to Europe we too find Emirates a lot cheaper!
Like you I read both the Hun & the Age as well as a few others on line these days. Stopped getting the Age delivered though I must say. But I do get the Thursday edition for the Green guide & we get both on Saturday. (I'm a sucker for being a Collingwood supporter because I read too many stupid articles about our team & I'm not discerning enough nor smart or strong enough not to buy them - in season- is it an obsession or a compulsion or both)?
I reckon it's the symbolism of getting a pay rise when wanting to dismiss staff (forget the rationale) all in the same time frame, makes us think he's a smug pr*ck. Also the perception of being too clever by half, or furtive about the instant closing of an airline. Forget the posturing, there is something obcene about having ones bonuses attached to dismissing staff - usually we associate this with the banking industry.
I was on a late shift & managed to watch the senate hearing with Joyce, he handled himself well. Bob Brown was the most articulate, impressive & the most effective in dismantling Joyce's spin - I thought - he was the only one that Joyce was uncomfortable in answering precisely because Brown used Joyces comments back on him - Joyce was visibly off balance by Browns questioning - not the manner but the content. Intelligent man Bob Brown.
My comments much ealier (in number form above) are in partial agreement with the writer but for mine the most impressive is Paul Barry's that I've read so far. |
I agree on the symbolism involved, even intelligent people like Piper can't get past the "71% increase" bit, although I still disagree with people making value judgements on his character on the basis of his salary.
It was bad timing no doubt but he doesn't control the timing of the AGM.
As far as getting a payrise on the back of making people redundant, there is something that grates about that, but I tend to rationalise things even when I instinctively find them unpalatable.
Cost of labour is usually the largest single cost for any organisation. In the case of Qantas, it's labour and fuel. The company needs to save money.
They can't do much about fuel costs, so it's labour they need to go after.
Reducing salaries isn't an option unless they can outsource. Reducing allowances or penalties via productivity improvements/flexibility is an obvious one but it seems as though the Union is blocking that at this stage.
Process simplification is another which can lead to job reductions and therefore labour savings.
So his payrise would have been tied to a number of KPI's, mainly (I'm guessing) about reducing costs. One of the means to do that is job losses.
i'm sure a lot of the same people who bag him now for his approach to the union negotiation will also queue up to bag him if he fails in reducing costs and the airline (or at least the Qantas brand) goes under.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Black_White wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Black_White wrote: | You need to watch more Gruen stui
Everything you posted about Joyce is exactly what the advertising guru's recommended be done to get him out of the shite
I reckon I might start saying i am a life long liberal voter, after all rewriting history is that easy |
Does that make it less true? |
Makes it about as true as me voting scum....err..umm..Liberal.
If this was a Labour Government you would be shouting "SPIN" from the rooftops.
Say it wouldn't be so. |
Isn't it a Labor Government? |
Lol!
It's okay, I forget too. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pied Piper 
Joined: 20 May 2003
Location: Pig City
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| stui magpie wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
When my wife & I fly business class on our monthly jaunts to Europe we too find Emirates a lot cheaper!
Like you I read both the Hun & the Age as well as a few others on line these days. Stopped getting the Age delivered though I must say. But I do get the Thursday edition for the Green guide & we get both on Saturday. (I'm a sucker for being a Collingwood supporter because I read too many stupid articles about our team & I'm not discerning enough nor smart or strong enough not to buy them - in season- is it an obsession or a compulsion or both)?
I reckon it's the symbolism of getting a pay rise when wanting to dismiss staff (forget the rationale) all in the same time frame, makes us think he's a smug pr*ck. Also the perception of being too clever by half, or furtive about the instant closing of an airline. Forget the posturing, there is something obcene about having ones bonuses attached to dismissing staff - usually we associate this with the banking industry.
I was on a late shift & managed to watch the senate hearing with Joyce, he handled himself well. Bob Brown was the most articulate, impressive & the most effective in dismantling Joyce's spin - I thought - he was the only one that Joyce was uncomfortable in answering precisely because Brown used Joyces comments back on him - Joyce was visibly off balance by Browns questioning - not the manner but the content. Intelligent man Bob Brown.
My comments much ealier (in number form above) are in partial agreement with the writer but for mine the most impressive is Paul Barry's that I've read so far. |
I agree on the symbolism involved, even intelligent people like Piper can't get past the "71% increase" bit, although I still disagree with people making value judgements on his character on the basis of his salary.
It was bad timing no doubt but he doesn't control the timing of the AGM.
As far as getting a payrise on the back of making people redundant, there is something that grates about that, but I tend to rationalise things even when I instinctively find them unpalatable.
Cost of labour is usually the largest single cost for any organisation. In the case of Qantas, it's labour and fuel. The company needs to save money.
They can't do much about fuel costs, so it's labour they need to go after.
Reducing salaries isn't an option unless they can outsource. Reducing allowances or penalties via productivity improvements/flexibility is an obvious one but it seems as though the Union is blocking that at this stage.
Process simplification is another which can lead to job reductions and therefore labour savings.
So his payrise would have been tied to a number of KPI's, mainly (I'm guessing) about reducing costs. One of the means to do that is job losses.
i'm sure a lot of the same people who bag him now for his approach to the union negotiation will also queue up to bag him if he fails in reducing costs and the airline (or at least the Qantas brand) goes under. |
I'll try not to engage further about something we're clearly never going to agree about, and WPT has already answered this as I would to a large degree. I'll just add that Joyce's pay rise has occurred at a time where in the public eye Qantas' brand is the worst it's ever looked. Refer to the catalogue of incidents I referred to in your "White Australia" thread (which should have been rolled into this one). According to most surveys Joyce did further damage to the company's reputation by grounding his fleet, which caused infinitely more disruption than industrial action had to that point.
Some of what you say here is actually at odds with what you wrote in the #Occupy thread.
_________________
"The greatest thing that could happen to the nation is when we get rid of all the media. Then we could live in peace and tranquillity, and no one would know anything." - Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I'm good at contradicting myself, depending on my level of sobriety and how much thought I put into the post.  
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Black_White
Joined: 19 Mar 2001
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| stui magpie wrote: |
Isn't it a Labor Government? |
Yes it is.
But their spin is nothing compared to that of the Qantas boss.
Of course the Qantas boss has the backing of the HeraldSun and it's stablemates. So no wonder you've been sucked in. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I heard they have a good spin is nothing compared to that of the Qantas boss. |
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Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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| Pied Piper wrote: | | whatever Joyce's personal roots, I don't see how anyone can accept a 71 percent pay rise to $5 million |
I don't know what world you're living in but here in the real world there's no such thing as a person who wouldn't accept such a pay rise. |
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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| Nick - Pie Man wrote: | | Pied Piper wrote: | | whatever Joyce's personal roots, I don't see how anyone can accept a 71 percent pay rise to $5 million |
I don't know what world you're living in but here in the real world there's no such thing as a person who wouldn't accept such a pay rise. |
Yeah, I'd accept it. Anyone who says they wouldn't is full of it. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Black_White wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: |
Isn't it a Labor Government? |
Yes it is.
But their spin is nothing compared to that of the Qantas boss.
Of course the Qantas boss has the backing of the HeraldSun and it's stablemates. So no wonder you've been sucked in. |
Far from sucked in.
Unlike some, I don't blindly adhere to the philosophies of a particular political party or movement, I try to assess each situation on it's merits and make decisions based on the facts, not just my personal bias.
For me the only thing that is Black and White is Collingwood. Everything else is just different shades of gray.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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sq3
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Location: Gold Coast/Tampa
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| watt price tully wrote: |
When my wife & I fly business class on our monthly jaunts to Europe we too find Emirates a lot cheaper!
Like you I read both the Hun & the Age as well as a few others on line these days. Stopped getting the Age delivered though I must say. But I do get the Thursday edition for the Green guide & we get both on Saturday. (I'm a sucker for being a Collingwood supporter because I read too many stupid articles about our team & I'm not discerning enough nor smart or strong enough not to buy them - in season- is it an obsession or a compulsion or both)?
I reckon it's the symbolism of getting a pay rise when wanting to dismiss staff (forget the rationale) all in the same time frame, makes us think he's a smug pr*ck. Also the perception of being too clever by half, or furtive about the instant closing of an airline. Forget the posturing, there is something obcene about having ones bonuses attached to dismissing staff - usually we associate this with the banking industry.
I was on a late shift & managed to watch the senate hearing with Joyce, he handled himself well. Bob Brown was the most articulate, impressive & the most effective in dismantling Joyce's spin - I thought - he was the only one that Joyce was uncomfortable in answering precisely because Brown used Joyces comments back on him - Joyce was visibly off balance by Browns questioning - not the manner but the content. Intelligent man Bob Brown.
My comments much ealier (in number form above) are in partial agreement with the writer but for mine the most impressive is Paul Barry's that I've read so far. |
Is this the same ntelligent' Bob Brown that told us that the Schanpper were an endangered specie and we had to have a 6 week amnesty each year and then 8 weeks later removed the fishing amnesty ??
_________________
Coaches give you direction but skills win you matches. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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^^
He's more intelligent than dead snapper & that 'ipso facto' makes him more intelligent than most pollies.
1 out of a 100 is a pretty good score card IMO!
(His sources might have been a bit fishy - he's usually quite well schooled - on the day I saw him he filleted Joyce on TV - didn't quite have him hook, line & sinker though but saw through Joyces' lure).
Regardless of his politics he is a very articulate & intelligent man.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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sq3
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Location: Gold Coast/Tampa
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WPT - always entitled to your opinion mate - but he really made a huge 'balls up' of the schnapper amnesty and I don't think he will set foot on Qld soil for along while.
Don't forget Hitler was also a very intelligent man. 
_________________
Coaches give you direction but skills win you matches.
Last edited by sq3 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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