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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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^ yep very facetious of me
we all know its a coalition - unions / greens 
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| sq3 wrote: | B&W - I don't Stui is union bashing and we would not want to work where the employer has total control - just as we don't want to return to the old BLF era.
The hard part is to find the common middle ground where everyone is happy.
I still find it hard to understand how I can get a flight to JFK and my bags are at the carousel (or a max of 1 minute late) when I get there - yet I always have to wait up to 30 minutes on an Australian domestic flight.
Last flight to the USA - after getting through customs in LA (5 min) bags were there in 2 min (7 min all up).
Flight back to Brisbane - 15 min to get through customs and 20 min waiting for bags (35 in all up).
How can the USA baggage handlers get it right and the Australian ones get it just so wrong ??? |
Should try this airline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZzefRR088Q&feature=related
Non union labour below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOP9fwnE4yY&feature=related
Joyce's new budgetary savings measures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFNLYnVO9nA&feature=related
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Black_White
Joined: 19 Mar 2001
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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To ensure that Qantas shareholders get their divedends & Joyce gets his bonuses, the Qantas staff when sacked / retrenched could consider a career in Customs:
(poor audio however):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Jf3ilSSqg
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pied Piper 
Joined: 20 May 2003
Location: Pig City
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| MJ23 wrote: | ^ yep very facetious of me
we all know its a coalition - unions / greens |
Try thinking a bit harder.
_________________
"The greatest thing that could happen to the nation is when we get rid of all the media. Then we could live in peace and tranquillity, and no one would know anything." - Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen |
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Black_White
Joined: 19 Mar 2001
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WTF?
http://atwonline.com/operations-maintenance/news/qantas-sabotage-led-grounding-decision-1101
| Quote: | | The airline is tight-lipped on the details but ATW understands that after engineers returned from a lunch break they noticed several wires were cut on an inflight entertainment system. Further investigation by the engineers revealed more severed wires had been covered up. |
| Quote: | | Westons assessment concluded that grounding the fleet immediately after the lockout was announced Saturday substantially reduced the risk of sabotage. |
So nothing to do with the industrial dispute after all.
Thank God that Qantas have saved it's customers from flying without the in flight entertainment system working at full capacity. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| Pied Piper wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | ^ yep very facetious of me
we all know its a coalition - unions / greens |
Try thinking a bit harder. |
sorry, couple of halfwitt nutcase independents also have a say.
either way, they are all doing a great job !
cant wait for the next choreographed finger pointing response to another disaster they didnt see coming.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Nice article on Alan Joyce.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/how-high-can-alan-joyce-go/story-fn7x8me2-1226186665598
A couple of interesting insights:
| Quote: | IT WAS not the smell of avgas or the glamour of flying that lured a young Alan Joyce into aviation. It was pure nerdiness.
Joyce - son of a Dublin cleaner and factory worker - had never been on a plane until his first job as an Aer Lingus operations research analyst when he was 22. |
| Quote: | Alan Joyce is a proud leftie and lifelong Labor voter. Or he was up until this week.
After being excoriated by Labor politicians at all levels, and even compared with Richard Nixon by one, Joyce said he might be reconsidering his loyalties.
"I've always been progressive in terms of my politics," he said.
"I'm very passionate about reconciliation, social awareness.
"I've been very liberal with a small 'l' on everything and in terms of how I've voted it would have always been on the left of politics." |
| Quote: | Joyce would like to clear one thing up. He's not anti-union. In fact, as the son of proud workers, he joined the Clerical Services Union as a young Aer Lingus staffer, about the same time he took that first flight.
"I was 22 and I flew from Dublin to Chicago. I was lucky. My first flight was business class, because I was working for the airline.
"I do think unions have a role to play. There are a lot of good unions out there that do the right things and do make a difference. I'm not, and I'm never going to be, anti-union. I'm pro-Qantas. That takes a bigger right over anything I feel about unions." |
Portrait of an evil right wing bastard keen to bully the workers?
| Quote: | Despite his huge salary, Joyce said he was fundamentally frugal.
"He's still a working-class boy," said one of Joyce's staunchest supporters, former defence force chief and Qantas board member General Peter Cosgrove.
"People become fixated on his appointment and his ($5 million) remuneration and probably think he's some kind of silvertail," he said.
"Alan Joyce came from a working-class background and dragged himself up through a career. He's a very clever, very compassionate and very talented man who is doing a great job as the CEO." |
Or portrait of a normal working class bloke with the necessary mixture of talent and ambition to work his way to the top?
No old boy private school connections, no inherited wealth, just hard work. This is the kind of bloke people should be looking up to as a role model instead of bagging him for his "obscene" salary.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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^ ah shit Stu
far too many facts there
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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Pied Piper
Joined: 20 May 2003
Location: Pig City
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| Pied Piper wrote: | Paul Barry is one of the best and most experienced journalists in Australia and his quick guide to what's actually going down here strips away a lot of the bullshit and puts the dispute in plain terms.
| Paul Barry wrote: | The Qantas drama involves many of the key people we're following on The Power Index. But what's this dispute actually about, and what are the stakes for those involved?
What's it about?
There are three different unions in dispute with Qantas, representing pilots, engineers and ground staff. Essentially, all are fighting the same battle, which is to hang on to their Qantas conditions of service and well-paid Qantas jobs as management tries to cut costs.
What does Qantas management want?
Qantas management wants to slash labour costs, particularly on international routes, where the airline is supposedly losing $200 million a year. It wants to do this in a number of ways. First is to set up a new offshore hubpossibly with a new premium airlinewhere pay rates would be lower, shifts longer and conditions more "flexible". Qantas has done this already to a degree by employing pilots for its trans-Tasman route in New Zealand and paying them one third less than in Australia. It has also done this with Jetstar flight attendants based in Thailand who face 20-hour shifts, and whose conditions have been criticised as "slave labour".
Qantas also cuts costs by running code-share flights with Jetstar, and paying pilots at Jetstar rates. By increasing the use of code-share arrangements, domestically and internationally, it can extend lower pay rates to an increasing share of its business. But it doesn't necessarily cut fares.
In Australia, Qantas wants the right to employ contract labour ground staff to meet demand peaks. The TWU appears to have accepted this, but is demanding that the contract hire companies are unionised.
It's about the right to manage
The Qantas board (and the Institute of Public Affairs) say the dispute is about management's right to manage. And our friends at Business Spectator agree. But Qantas managers want to cut pay rates, change work practices, take jobs offshore and increase profits by lowering labour costs. In those circumstances, it's surely legitimate for the unions want a say, because it's about the conditions under which they work.
It's all about union power
Some say it's all about union power. And for Tony Sheldon and the TWU it may well be. But unlike the famous fights in the mining industry, where employees had plenty to gain from higher pay rates, employees in Qantas will lose from the changes that management want to make.
It's the only way Qantas can stay in business
Qantas claims its international operations are losing $200 million a year. Clearly, that can't continue. But not all the changes it's afterparticularly those involving the TWUare confined to international operations. Introducing contract labour to handling of domestic planes has nothing to do with the viability of the airline.
Which side will Fair Work Australia support?
If the disputes remain unsolved after 21 days, Fair Work Australia has the power to impose a settlement. But don't assume it will split the difference between the sides. While the Australian Industry Group is complaining that FWA is entenching union power, Qantas would take heart from a decision in September where FWA refused to apply Qantas conditions to pilots employed at lower rates by the airline's New Zealand subsidiary. It may well take that view again.
How about sharing the pain?
The Qantas dispute is part of an age-old battle between labour and capital. And there's no doubt who is winning. Take a look at these charts from Business Insider, which show CEO pay in the USA is now 350 times average earnings, while corporate profits and unemployment are at record highs and the share of wages in the economy is at record lows. It's not just Alan Joyce that's getting a 71% pay rise for making his workforce take less.
How about sharing the gain?
We all know Qantas passengers have been victims of this dispute. But that's not the only way they're losing out. Qantas made an underlying profit of $500 million last year, which translates to $700 million on its domestic operations. So why aren't passengers getting some of that in lower fares? And will Qantas pass on any future cost savingsat employees' expenseto the public? Or will it just hand it to its shareholders and management? |
http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/guidebook/paul-barry-s-guide-to-the-qantas-dispute/20111031632
Interesting article, as you would say Stui. |
I'm quoting myself for you to consider some other perspectives, MJ23 - though I suspect you are too blinkered to bother.
Stui, I'm afraid it'll be a cold day in hell before I give weight to a puff-profile in the Hun. I guess we have a clash of values here, because whatever Joyce's personal roots, I don't see how anyone can accept a 71 percent pay rise to $5 million, for crying out loud, while at the same time promising that 1000 jobs will have to be shed and vowingthat the airline industry must outsource its operations in order to survive. That's morally wrong in my opinion.
_________________
"The greatest thing that could happen to the nation is when we get rid of all the media. Then we could live in peace and tranquillity, and no one would know anything." - Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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No doubt we have a clash of values. I don't have a major problem with Joyce getting a payrise. His salary is comparable with ther CEO's in similar size industries and he didn't give it to himself, the board did and it was ratified at a shareholders meeting.
Re the puff piece, that it may be but it still makes good reading of his background.
Isn't he an example of the exact kind of thing you would want to see be able to happen? Someone from a working class background be able to aspire to one of the top jobs in the country with no "Class collusion"?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Black_White
Joined: 19 Mar 2001
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You need to watch more Gruen stui
Everything you posted about Joyce is exactly what the advertising guru's recommended be done to get him out of the shite
I reckon I might start saying i am a life long liberal voter, after all rewriting history is that easy |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Black_White wrote: | You need to watch more Gruen stui
Everything you posted about Joyce is exactly what the advertising guru's recommended be done to get him out of the shite
I reckon I might start saying i am a life long liberal voter, after all rewriting history is that easy |
Does that make it less true?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | No doubt we have a clash of values. I don't have a major problem with Joyce getting a payrise. His salary is comparable with ther CEO's in similar size industries and he didn't give it to himself, the board did and it was ratified at a shareholders meeting.
Re the puff piece, that it may be but it still makes good reading of his background.
Isn't he an example of the exact kind of thing you would want to see be able to happen? Someone from a working class background be able to aspire to one of the top jobs in the country with no "Class collusion"? |
You know what ex-smokers are like Stui?!
John Howard was far worse but that's another story!
The artilce was like reading the footy record section of a players favourites - about as analytical as well IMO!
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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