Is Josh Fraser 1 year away from...

[Rohan]

Some of the replies in this thread prove my point down to a tee. Because of Fraser's perception in the media, which has been enhanced by his confident and "mature" approach to media work, we have unrealistic expectations of him.

Josh has always promised the world but has delivered not much. Didak's form as a third year player is the same sort of form that Josh not only should be equalling but exceeding.

The poster formerly known as Rohan Coventry Tateson

[JLC]

I think you will find that Ruckman take longer to develop than midfielders.......look at Chris Judd......first year player last year and played exceptionally well in the midfield. Daniel Kerr adapted pretty quickly to the AFL as well.

Fraser didnt have the luxury of having a year in the VFL as he was forced to carry our ruck division at a very young age. He didnt really have an experienced player to learn his craft off. He didnt have the luxury of a Paul Salmon or John Barnes etc to teach him how to ruck. There was no Damian Monkhorst at the club to help teach him.

Im sure people would have been critical of Licuria in the past and some may have even suggested that he be traded. The same goes for Scotty Burns an injury riddled year and people want him traded. Both these players have turned their form around and in Licurias case his career.

I say be patient with Josh Fraser and he will reward us for many years to come

jlc



Its not arrogance if you can back it up

Fate is what you are given, Destiny is what you do with it

Essendon 2000 premiers
2001 runners up
2002 fifth
2003 ????
The slide continues

[Rohan]

Josh Fraser isn't a ruckman though. He spent all his junior football as a centre half-forward and isn't a natural ruckman.

He hasn't got the build and the overhead skills to be a ruckman.

The poster formerly known as Rohan Coventry Tateson

[Brown26]

Rohan, I think you may be right that he's not that cut out for ruck work ATM, but let me say again ATM.

There are two points you need to understand from that.

1. - is he still value for the team if he isn't in the ruck?
2. - will he develop into a good, nay, great ruckman in time?

the answer to both these question is yes.

You need to understand that ruckmen, and big men in general, take longer to develop than small blokes.

Also realise that ruck work is very hard to learn, and rucking in the AFL is different to rucking at junior levels, where all you need to do is stand and punch.

and I think you'll find he did ruck in his last year in juniors, mostly, and did very very well.

point number one is the immediate answer to your initial question - even if he doesn't ruck, ever, he's still a good enough player to play for us. No trade. Poit number two is the reason so many people fell of their chair when they read your post.

Fraser has the potential of a superstar, he is already a godo player, don't fall into the trap of thinking he will never make it simply because you're own expectations of the young man have not been fufiled in his first three injury plauged seasons.

- Ben

Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....

[Cam]

Can't believe this is even a topic.

Hard at it. The Collingwood way.

[dillo_09]

My opinion is that Josh Fraser will not be traded and continue to improve over the next few years and become a superstar, be it up forward or in the ruck, however....

People HAVE to remember that football is now a business and the only product that we have is the players and that they all have a value, some higher than others and therefore EVERY player on our list COULD be traded, for the right price.

For example, Collingwood and WCE, both agreed that 1 Damian Adkins has the same value of 1 Andrew Williams. Simple trade for both parties.

Don't kid yourself that some players are untouchable. Whilst I doubt very much that Buckley/Fraser/Burns/Rocca etc etc would ever be traded, mainly as a reward for loyalty, Melbourne supporters would have said the same thing 6 months ago about Woewodin.

Every player has a price tag on his head. Hypothetically, say Brisbane finish last with no wins (for simplicity of this example) and we were offered Draft picks 1,2,3,17 & 34, M.Voss, Black and Johnathon Brown for Nathan Buckley and draft pick 16, I would say that is a great deal and we should take it.

Now that is the most far fetched example I could come up with, and is very unlikely to occur, but one thing we all must do as supporters is prepare ourselves for the day that the Collingwood Football Club has to make the hard decisions that club's like Essendon and Melbourne have had to make recently. If you dont stop deluding yourselves you will be severely dissapointed in the future.

Footy is now like a game of chess, it's how you manage and position your peices on the board, and what you are prepared to sacrifice, that allows you to create a check mate situation and win the game.

No player is bigger than the club, and all that we want, and the club want's, is to win Grand finals, no matter who pulls on the guernsey.

[Culprit]

Last nights effort for Josh against the Dawks was woeful. I would not have him in the seniors on current form.



[This message has been edited by Culprit (edited 03 March 2003).]

[angel]

Will never be ruckman, not good enough a mark for CHF

Pies light up my world. Davis was the next big thing but now it will be Didak or Cole. Go Pies!

[mgh3536]

The commentators were right he goes to the ground too easy and too readily.

There is no room in the forward line for tarrant, Rocca, Fraser and Molloy. Me thinks Molloy is more to the liking of MM.

Josh has got to perform as a mobile ruckman..

[MargOZ]

I think Josh is still a superstar in the making and I'm sure his work ethic and teammanship, even though he seems in a bit of a form slump, is a bonus around the Club. I think with his form down at the moment he is struggling to find a regular spot on the ground within a team who are really firing.

He's still too light for the ruck and when guys like Dids, Tazz, Molly, Williams and Rocca are all firing up forward, it doesn't leave much room in there for Josh. (And we need Rocca at CHF, in the ruck and at CHB all at the same time!!!). I think Josh just needs a couple of good solid matches under his belt to get his confidence back and a regular spot in the team will soon appear. It just shows our depth at the moment when good players are going to get bench time and maybe even struggle to get regular senior matches. All the guys are going to have to work harder to cement their spots - which will only result in more on-field success.

GO PIES!
Marg

[STOKA35]

you do not loose abilty someone please remind josh you are 6 foot 5 can run mark tackle and kick you can do it i expect a big game this week.

[Pies Premiers 2003]

Bugger ME and I thought he only just turned 21.....

Was there a misprint in the footy record on his DOB???

Is there a "I'm completely crazy forum?" I think this topic belongs there....

THE PIES GO MARCHING ON

[Culprit]

Josh goes to ground to easliy, gets knocked out of play to easily. When I played footy my coaches use to say if you went to ground it was for two reasons. One you were soft or two you were soft.

I was a big fan of Josh, but would have to say he is becoming our softest player. He would not be in my 22 senior squad at this stage. He has teh ability to improve and who knows he may change when the real stuff starts.

[AnthonyC]

Licuria has done nothing lately, get rid of him.


Go Pies!

[Culprit]

Yeah good point, considering he didn't play. The way Josh has been playing you can't tell if he did play.

Josh's stats from Sunday night

2 Kicks 2 Handpasses 4 Disposals 2 Marks Total Possesions 6, oh thats right he did get 1 hitout.