Posts pruned from the president's topic

[Mike]

These are the posts that were cut from the 'Message from the president' topic last week. Thery were cut from that thread because they were grossly off-topic.

I apologise for taking so long to get them back up, but it's a fair bit of work reqworking 60 posts into a new thread.

[Abi]

No I didn't fall out of the wrong side of bed. But the fact is that he is on the payroll to two masters. Also fact that he was devastated to leave Melbourne and didn't initially want to come to Collingwood. He will get to like it at Pieland in time. Another fact is that Eddie was interviewed after the prelim final and said that we have enjoyed this success with our homegrown product and don't poach players, we only go via the draft etc etc. That's fact the radio stations will have a copy. Well if you examine our list can you gainsay the fact that Woey, O'Bree, Bucks, Rocca, Williams, Clement, Holland,Molloy, Wakelin, Betheras,Licuria, Freeborn and last year we had Rintoul and Cummings were from other lists. And we have traded away two of our homegrown products. And Eddie also made the statement in 1999 that you pick a star, and he has since repeated this, and in relation to St.Kilda fans, and you put that star's number on your back for the next ten years. Try telling that to the kids who chose Adkins and Davis. I know a few very upset little girls and boys. Eddie has done a great job for the club and turned it around. No one questions his passion, and they wouldn't ours as well. His main mistake was using the tainted Cooper money. Apart from that what he has done has been sensational. But that doesn't mean I have to be a total sycophant and agree with him about everything including paying Woewodin incredible money which might affect stability of finances later on. If you wanted to pay big money why not get someone much better, why not Travis J? Melbourne wanted rid of Woey and he's certainly no supertalent. People have had a go at me again because I didn't fall down and kiss the ground of the poster. I believe in thinking and divergence of opinion.

Pie fan forever

[Abi]

Rach Ryan took the most stunning girlfriend to the Copeland so you have a bit of competition there my love. And perhaps you should lay off the loves so much as the players privately say they are sick off groupies. So just become a great supporter and admire his footy talents. In fact some conveniently annex girlfriends to ward off the embarrassing hero worship.

Pie fan forever

[Brown26]

Abi, are you saying that we should not have traded to get O'Bree, Rocca, Buckley, Clement, Licca, etc? Or are you simply posting that to make Eddie look bad?

We all know that all clubs have a lot of players from other lists originally playing for them, I think it's great that we have got a few players like Clemo, Licca, O'Bree and even Buckley, who have come to Collingwood and have honed their skills to become good players, even great players, although I'm sure you'll dispute that. They may as well be "home grown" cause many of them have developed here.

And Woewodin? If he "certainly isn't a super talent" or not is yet to be seen when he runs out in a Pies jumper, I thought he was pretty good in 2000, and yes I would've liked T. Johnson, but I think he will get back to his form of 2000 if not more, I think that is reasonable to say, change of club, change of direction, change of motivation, and we've got a great coach.

I have no qualms that we didn't pick him up from the under 19's and develop him ourselves, he was available, we've got cap space, we've got money, great oppourtunity if you ask me. If he doesn't perform in the next two years, renegotiate his contract to a lower figure. I don't hold Eddie as a hypocrit because he took advantage of a good oppourtunity.

And I tell you something else, most if not all of the guys at collilngwood are good guys, nice blokes, something you may refute I don't know, but they enjoy playing for the team and with their mates, I'm not sure if too many of them will demand big money (even though they deserve it) just because someone else is getting it.

I am glad we got woewodin, a coup if you ask me, we're in the perfect position to cover his contract for at least two years, renegotiate after that if he's not worth it, and it's one more step towards premership glory. Would we have done it without him? maybe, probably even. but the coaching and administration have made me more confident of this by picking up woewodin.

that's a rational and thinking response, enjoy!!

- Ben





Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....

[Northern Pie]

Okay I have been Baited.....

Abi

quote:

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But the fact is that he is on the payroll to two masters. Also fact that he was devastated to leave Melbourne and didn't initially want to come to Collingwood. He will get to like it at Pieland in time.

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Woewodin is not the only player in the AFL playing under this sort of agreement. Of course he was devasted to leave Melbourne, his career was developed there and of course he would have alot of friends there as well. Your post seems to indicate that because he has his salary subsidised by Melbourne then he will not perform 100% for Collingwood, that is just plain rediculous. He has both his feet in one camp....Collingwoods!! why can't you accept that!!

quote:

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Another fact is that Eddie was interviewed after the prelim final and said that we have enjoyed this success with our homegrown product and don't poach players, we only go via the draft etc etc. That's fact the radio stations will have a copy. Well if you examine our list can you gainsay the fact that Woey, O'Bree, Bucks, Rocca, Williams, Clement, Holland,Molloy, Wakelin, Betheras,Licuria, Freeborn and last year we had Rintoul and Cummings were from other lists. And we have traded away two of our homegrown products. And Eddie also made the statement in 1999 that you pick a star, and he has since repeated this, and in relation to St.Kilda fans, and you put that star's number on your back for the next ten years. Try telling that to the kids who chose Adkins and Davis. I know a few very upset little girls and boys.

---

firstly who are the 2 homegrown products we have traded away? Adkins yes, but are you suggesting Davis was a homegrown product? Was my understanding that Davis wanted to leave Collingwood, repeat WANTED TO LEAVE COLLINGWOOD!!! to go and play for Sydney....I think that would upset those little boys and girls you are thinking of. Adkins, again from my understanding was approached about his future and he and the club mutually decided his career lay elsewhere as he had not performed (due to injury) over a 2 year period, his career is at a turning point and now he has the opportunity to make it work, unfortunately not at Collingwood....and yeah I can see the throngs of children wailing and gnashing thier teeth over a player they have seen 3 times in 2 years, give me a break. Oh and poaching players....okay....Woewodin - Melbourne put his name on the table!! collingwood did not approach them about a deal, they approached us because we had room in our salary cap, Melbounre officials said they put the name on the table expecting no one to be able to pick him up, they were wrong, so wrong in fact that they have to pay for that mistake now to the tune of $80000/year, Buckley - was always going to go to Collingwood after his year with the bears, O'bree - wanted to come back to Victoria and we picked him up for next to nothing from the uncontracted list, Rocca made his intention known that he would like to play for collingwood so we approached him, Molloy another player who wanted to come home so we approached him, Clement,Holland,Wakelin, Betheras,Licuria, Freeborn, Rintoul, Cummings all pretty much discarded by their respective clubs and were put on the table as trade bait and with MM experince and knowledge of some of those players decided to help them develop thier careers at Collingwood ( you forgot Stienfort btw) Williams was a straight swap for a player west coast needed and one that fit in our list with the early departure of Rintoul...so the question is? WHEN DID WE POACH ANY OF THOSE PLAYERS??

quote:

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Eddie has done a great job for the club and turned it around

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Wow that must have hurt Abi

quote:

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No one questions his passion, and they wouldn't ours as well. His main mistake was using the tainted Cooper money. Apart from that what he has done has been sensational.

---

2 years of having our finances in the black....good enough for me Abi...

quote:

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But that doesn't mean I have to be a total sycophant and agree with him about everything including paying Woewodin incredible money which might affect stability of finances later on. If you wanted to pay big money why not get someone much better, why not Travis J? Melbourne wanted rid of Woey and he's certainly no supertalent.

---

Come on Abi, we have enough room to move in our salary cap to have both Woey and Travis J in our list....like that is going to affect our finacial situation all that much.....on Travis J, firstly was he put up by Melbourne as a trade....errrr nope, so if we went after him wouldn't that be considered to be poaching, of which you seem to abhore so much...and lets look at the stats shall we.....

Travis Johnstone:

Had a terrible run with injuries last season, missing the first three rounds with a pelvis injury and struggling later in the year with groin problems. In all, he managed just five senior games and there was some doubt about his long-term future with the Demons. However, he played outstanding games in rounds 21 and 22, showing the class and poise that made him the No. 1 selection in the 1997 AFL National Draft. Needs an injury-free run this year to establish himself.
PLAYER HONORS
AFL Rising Star nominee 1998.
WOW 5 whole games last year, yep defiantely go after him what a gun!!!

Shane Woewodin:
The 2000 Brownlow Medallist played 138 of a possible 140 games with Melbourne since debuting in 1997. Brilliant on his day, Woewodin will help bolster the Pies midfield after being picked up in 2002 trade with Melbourne.


PLAYER HONOURS
Brownlow Medal
Winner 2000

Melbourne
Best and fairest 2000
Runner up best and fairest 1999

Representative honours
International Rules Series 2000

AFL
AFL Rising Star nominee 1997



FACT FILE
Brownlow Medal
2002 votes - 3
career votes 43

AFL record
1997-2002: Melbourne - 138 games, 63 goals

Sounds like an absloute dud to me, sheez started his career around the same time as Johnstone and has managed to miss 2 games and win a brownlow in that same time period...sheez we have picked up a useless player here, not worth a penny I would say....Travis Johnstone has proved himself so much more in the same amount of time, what the hell were we thinking!!

One wonders just what a player has to do to earn the tag of a Supertalent these days??

quote:

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Rach Ryan took the most stunning girlfriend to the Copeland so you have a bit of competition there my love. And perhaps you should lay off the loves so much as the players privately say they are sick off groupies. So just become a great supporter and admire his footy talents. In fact some conveniently annex girlfriends to ward off the embarrassing hero worship.

---

Damn!!! does this mean that I have to give up my dream of bedding Heather Graham?? Damn and it was such a realistic dream of mine too!!

She is a teenager, were you a teenager once? and are you so far into the inner-sanctum with the players that you can honestly give an opinion as to what they think of their devoted fans...if you are that far in would that classify you as a ""groupie"" as well and maybe you are being told these things so that you may eventually take the hint???

One Wonders!!!!

Cheers

Sorry about the long post

"NEVER LEAVE, NEVER GIVE UP ON THEM AND ALWAYS BE THERE AT THE END TO CLAP THEM OFF THE GROUND. WE ARE COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTERS SON, EVEN IF THEY BEAT US, WE ARE STILL BETTER THAN THEM!"(quote from my mum when I was 8 years old)

[This message has been edited by Northern Pie (edited 23 November 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Northern Pie (edited 23 November 2002).]

[Abi]

The last two posters make valid points in highly constructive pieces. I didn't suggest that we should not actually acquire talent from other clubs if players are available and willing to play with the Pies. In the case of a guys such as Clement he was rated more highly by us anyway. My main beef is with the president making the odd fallacious or slightly hypocritical statement. The fact is a large percentage of our better players have been annexed from other club lists. I have no problem with that even though most of us would prefer to select homegrown guys and watch their careers develop from scratch. In the case of O'Bree he was poached by us. At the time we were committed to making that first pick in the pre-season draft work. Our offer to Shane was one Brisbane really couldn't match especially based on Shane's previous output. Leigh M visited him at his parents' place in Ballarat and pleaded him to stay with the Lions but the extra money offered by us and the hometown lure were too much for him to resist. He actually dudded Brisbane which got nothing in return for him. After a couple of petulant years Roccas decided to return home but Collingwood was very active in ensuring that it was to our club and no other Melbourne club. He gave Sydney very poor service but thankfully has turned his whole career around big time. Incidentally we compensated Sydney very well for him so they can't complain. Buckley had earmarked the Pies early on as his destination but make no mistake Collingwood did some underhand dealing and certainly compromised the draft at the time to secure him. It was widely known halfway through 1993 that he would become a Pie even though this was illegal to have any sort of agreement and had to be construed as prejudicial to the draft. We also secured Freeborn by making an offer North Melbourne couldn't match at the time given the parlous state of their finances. Some of the other members of the "foreign legion" we have secured through run of the mill trading. I never inferred I despised the fact merely refuted Ed's comments that we have built our regime through the draft. In today's Age coicidentally there is a breakdown of how clubs have constructed their respective lists. We certainly are not the champions of highly judicious drafting practices. In relation to Woewodin I don't doubt he is a reasonable player, and certainly he had an excellent 2000, though most experts believed he was lucky to have won the Brownlow medal. He has the potential to make a good contribution to our club though I questioned the wisdom of him suddently going near the top of the pay brackets given the fact that he is new on the list and hasn't performed especially well over the past couple of years. I am sure the senior players will embrace him because the likes of Burns and Buckley are desperate for flag success but equally the younger players may be envious of his pay packet. Now it has been commented that our players are a great group who won't resent this but money does talk. Why else would Wakelin who is said to love the club, likewise Heath, be prepared to leave for more favourable deals elsewhere. Most players become attached to their group and club in that order, but at the end of the day their livelihood is seen to be more important given their short lifespan in the game. I would prefer to recruit the likes of Travis J, and be prepared to offer him that sort of money because he is younger and has more ability. Woewodin has had one great season, so too Travis. That makes them equal. Both have had their ups and downs, TJ mainly due to persistent groin injuries. It's funny how Woey who was decried by many people on this site and others has suddenly become flavour of the month just because he has been forced to transfer to the Pies. Just goes to show how fragile the loyalty of players and fans is these days. Everything goes out the window come trade time. As for that groupie thing. I know that the players do despise the groupies. Know some personally and have some friends with close connections with them. Many find signing autographs a great chore too but occasionally, and this is fact, the club hierarchy has had to have a word to them to tell them to do this in good grace as we are their members and pay their salaries effectively. I certainly never ask for an autography though and certainly abstain from that practice of getting my photo taken over and over again with the same player. Some of been known to say "Not her again" In the Age a few years ago there was an article detailing exactly how the Essendon players felt about groupies. And it didn't make flattering reading. I didn't mean any offence to Rach, just urging her to restrict her affections to Ryan's playing ability if possible. The players' girlfriends don't appreciate the attention of the groupies either. And how would some of the girls who badger these players for autographs etc. feel if their boyfriends were hassled by other women?

Pie fan forever

[Abi]

A further point, our salary cup is close to the limit and we are paying Woewodin a huge salary cap. No way could we have accommodated both Woey and TJ. We had to shed Davis once we decided upon Woey even if it meant the trade with Sydney wasn't terribly favourable. And Adkins and Davis were both homegrown products selected in the 1998 draft regardless of them wanting to go. We can't control that but Ed shouldn't make promises he couldn't keep some decide to leave the fold and both have seen they have greater opportunity for more game time at other clubs.

Pie fan forever

[Northern Pie]

Shane O'bree was picked up by us as we had priority pick of uncontracted players. Brisbane failed to negotiate a suitable contract for Shane to stay in Brisbane throughout the whole season as he had been regarded as a fringe player in an increasingly talented list. Shane thought that there would be more of a chance to further his career elsewhere and when he reached the end of the season without resiging he became available through the draft Sytem. Brisbane may have put an offer in to keep him here but his full intention still remained to go back home to Victoria. This is not poaching, this is using the Draft system as set down by the AFL, just as Carlton (well maybe not now) would have had the first pick of the best uncontracted players first to negotiate a deal...and being from Queensland distinctly remember Leigh Matthews saying that Shane O'Bree was at best a player at Brisbane simply making up the numbers.

Anthony Rocca was not making much headway at Sydney and also stated that he too would like to return to Victoria, Collingwood actively persued him as his brother was playing at Collingwood as well and as you said Sydney was compensated well.

Both Nathan Buckley and Brett Chalmers who were Port Adelaide players who signalled thier intention to play for Collingwood before the season, which was found to be a contradiction to draft rules therefore they had to enter in the draft to be selected by which ever club picked them up...which they both did, I think chalmers ended up at Adelaide while Buckley went to Brisbane....Collingwood and both bux and chalmers wore a huge fine for the incident and although bux has gone on to become a collingwood champion unfortunately Chalmers never came to us. When Bux got to brisbane he signed a one year contract and at the end of the season, being an uncontracted player, was appraoched by Collingwood and negotiated a deal which I think saw Craig Starcevich and draft picks go to Brisbane...certainly well compensated.

I cannot comment on the Glenn Freeborn incident and do apologise if i made reference to him as being a Nth Melbourne discard.

I think the Stats on Woewodin and Travis Johnstone describe their careers well. One must not forget that the ""experts"" rated us no chance of making the finals let alone the granny..Woewodin has had one spactacular year, followed by week in and week out consitancy....yet Johnstone still has to work back into form after an injury plauged year, surely you can see wisdom in going after Woewodin after being offered by Melbourne...besides Travis Johnstone was not offered as trade and things may have been different if he had have been....and the pay packet thing...well he has some pretty impressive stats to his name and we have payed for not only his talent but the contribution he can make as a senior player and a player of finals and a grandfinal. Yep alot of people hated him, much like I hated cummings and several others who have come to Collingwood, but once they pull on the black and white, they become family, being a pie fan forever you should know that the rules of how we feel about players before they come to Collingwood, do not apply.

As I have been reminded recently, players are a commodity and with that comes idolization...these guys are professional and while they may personally hate signing autographs, they are professionals, and if they need reminding of that occasionally then so be it....Being a professional AFL player these days, having passionate supporters and girls who idolise them are part and parcel with the whole package, they have to learn to live with it, it is a bit silly to ask all the guys out there to watch Julia Roberts and ask her to admire her for her acting abilities, no different with the girls that idolise the collingwood players, I don't think all of those girls that scream and shout and make such a fuss over NSync are standing there going sheez they are so talented....So these Girls are not any different. If the girlfriends of the players can't handle it then maybe they are not as secure and as trusting in their relationships with their boyfriends as they should be and have to come to terms with the fact that their boyfriends are being idolised as my wife has had to come to terms with me being mobbed by teenage girls wherever I go, just because of my stunning looks...(yeah right) Abi,I don't want you to feel like I am having a go at you personally, just you hang it out there for comment. The Salary cap comment, well I have heard likewise and that our 92.5% is no where near being in danger of a breech.

And Tessa, I believe Mr McGuire made those comments after being reassured by Nick Davis himself that he would re-sign, but once again he changed his mind and played us all, including the president. Nick Davis was not really what i consider home grown talent, there hasn't actually been any homegrown talent in our team since the demise of the zoning system, all the players we have are the result of drafting policy and trade negotiations.....they may develop their craft at our Club but none i would consider to be ""homegrown"" anymore.

Cheers




"NEVER LEAVE, NEVER GIVE UP ON THEM AND ALWAYS BE THERE AT THE END TO CLAP THEM OFF THE GROUND. WE ARE COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTERS SON, EVEN IF THEY BEAT US, WE ARE STILL BETTER THAN THEM!"(quote from my mum when I was 8 years old)

[molloymagic]

When Cummings came into the side,i had my doubts.I still didn't warm to him as a player but my word he is a comedian*lol*. He would be perfect as host as 'black and white tv' on fox footy*s*.

Jarrod Molloy RULES!!!!
*2003:The injury free season for Molloy!!*
*2002 Joint V.C*

[Abi]

Troy Lehmann was the other player in the deal which saw Bucks come to us. I would disagree with the comments regarding Anthony Rocca. Sydney rated him and wanted to keep him but he really didn't put in and had always made it clear he wanted to be in Melbourne despite them relocating his mother and him sharing with Licuria and a Northern Knights mate. As far as Eddie and the Davis signing goes I think that's the only real mistake he made this year. I thought it highly irregular to demand that a player re-sign at round three, we had many other who would be coming out of contract at the end of the year yet only one was harassed and according to those close to him made him angry at the suggestion that he was disloyal. In future it's probably better that if a player wishes to he should negotiate his future at the end of the year. Brisbane knew Headland was heading back to Perth at the end but just let him get on with footy. It cast a pall over the club, even though his general geeing up of the team at the time was good. Eddie forcing the issue also caused the constant speculation over the re-signing and the consequent "lies" or changing of the mind which acted as a distraction. Balmy said at the time as did Swann and Nixon that Eddie should not have gone over the top on this issue and I doubt if he would do the same thing again.

Pie fan forever

[I normally read your posts with some interest Abi and respect your opinions even if I don't always agree with them, but unintelligent throw-aways like the one I've just removed are beneath you, or anybody else, and do absolutely nothing for your credibility.]

[This message has been edited by Mike (edited 24 November 2002).]

[MissMagpie_20]

Abi that is soooooo wrong to post that kind of thing!!!!!!

_________________________
VOULEZ VOUS COUCHER AVEC MOIR TAZZA?

Floreat Pica - May the Magpies prosper

[Abi]

What Miss Magpie I am just reiterating what was in Chicks Channel under the who has got a girlfriend thread, nothing new at all.

Pie fan forever

[Brown26]

it doesn't matter where it was said Abi it was out of line, I'm sure if it was seen in the chicks channel the same reaction would've occured. Sorry but we don't need that sort of stuff thanks.

- Ben

Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....

[Joel]

Abi - Please moderate your comments. If I was a mod this week they would have been moderated. I believe that they will be moderated soon, so why not do it yourself?

JDF

"We've never quit, and we won't."

[Black_White]

So Abi, your obviously very closly associated with CFC. You claim to have inside knowledge of the players, though of course you are not a low-life groupie, you claim to be "in" with the admin group, though you hold no official office that we know of.
But despite this wealth of information you are at odds with our Prez and the way that he runs, and has pulled it out of the situation the Filth find themselves in, our great club.
I ask one question only of you Abi.
When can I vote for you in a board election?
You see, to be so right all the time means that you should take your rightful place at the head table of CFC, hell, why don't we just give you Ed's job. You'd be happy then I'm sure. As a bonus we would have a Prez that was never wrong, that was prepared to have any poor sponsor of ours audited before we take their "dirty" money.
A Prez that was able to seperate the gods (players) from the huddled masses that pay their wages. A Prez that would make changes when our football department negotiates stunning deals that force other clubs to pick up the tab. Ensuring that the player only gets pure, clean (well it must be cause you audited it) Magpie dollars.

C'mon Abi, time to lead us out of the horror that has been the last 3 years. We need a change and we need it now. Vote 1 Abi.

-Craig


P.S. I've read your comments on a certain player. You should expect a yellow card shortly.




[This message has been edited by Black_White (edited 24 November 2002).]