Collingwood's Most Valuable 30, In order, please add your ow

[Cam]

Cmon, everybody put their money where their mouth is.

Rule: You can only comment on someone elses AFTER posting your OWN 30 in order.

Most Valuable Collingwood 30

1. Anthony Rocca
2. Paul Licuria
3. Nathan Buckley
4. Scott Burns
5. James Clement
6. Shane Woewodin * (unknown)
7. Chris Tarrant
8. Josh Fraser
9. Ryan Lonie
10. Alan Didak
11. Simon Prestigiacomo
12. Jarrod Molloy ** (as high as 6th if completely uninjured)
13. Steven McKee
14. Jason Cloke
15. Shane O'Bree
16. Rupert Betheras
17. Tarkyn Lockyer
18. Leon Davis
19. Shane Wakelin
20. Heath Scotland *** (could rise if given game time)
21. Ben Johnson
22. Mark McGough **** (back to back anzac medals here we come)
23. Andrew Williams
24. Carl Steinfort
25. Glenn Freeborn
26. Brodie Holland
27. Richard Cole
28. Mark Richardson
29. Tom Davidson ***** (keep hearing his name)
30. Dane Swan ****** (ditto)


Hard at it. The Collingwood way.

[This message has been edited by Cam (edited 14 November 2002).]

[Rowdy26]

i know your rules state you have to add your top 30 first cam, but i just cant understand how you can have a top 30 in order of value. Players have such different roles in the team that to me it doesnt really make sense to go listing them from number 1 through to number 30 in terms of most valuable. For istance how can you compare Presti against Lica... they are 2 completely different styles of game both are extremely valuable in the roles they play. I think maybe you could do this if you were comparing players of similar roles from different teams, but i find this sort of list more of a "whos your favourite player" type list. For instance, 12 spots seems a pretty big gap in value from Ryan Lonie to Ben Johnson. Johnson is a very valuable player in the role the coach assigns him hence the reason he continues to get so much game time and faith shown towards him. It could be argued his value to the team in many instances this year was greater than that of Lonie, taking nothing away from Lonie.

It you were to base "value" in terms of inspiring and impact player and ability to turn a match, then yeh Rocca would definately be up there near number 1. However there are other characteristics that determine value to the team. I just generally try not to read too much into these lists. Unless we know exactly what role the coach has asked each player to play then it is almost impossible to determine which player is the most valuable. I think something like the club best and fairest is probably the best way of determining most valuable, but even that can be flawed by the actual voting system used.

However in a way I do like the controversy this types of lists can generate. I love seeing Mike Sheehan bombarded with thousands of letters every year abusing him for the player rankings he determines.

[Murray]

Good idea Cam
1. Bucks
2. Anthony
3. Lica
4. Tarrant
5. Burns
6. Clement
7. WoeWodin
8. Didak
9. Fraser
10. Lonie
11. Cloke
12. Jarrod
13. Presti
14. O'B
15. Tarks
16. Scotland
17. McKee
18. Roop
19. Wakes
20. McG
21. Leon
22. Ben J
23. Feeborn
24. Holland
25. Cole
26. Tom D
27. Steinfort
28. Williams
29. Richo
30. Kinnear

I based mine soley on what I have seen this year (16 games at the ground).
I think the top 10 pick themselves although there maybe a slight juggling on the order and some personal preferences.
Interesting Cam that we both put Woewodin in our top 10.

DARE TO STRUGGLE - DARE TO WIN

[Joel]

No way, my head would explode if I tried to put a top 30 valuable players list together. I could do it, but it would be very hard due to the nature of the game because people play different roles.

JDF

"We've never quit, and we won't."

[Murray]

C'mon Joel have a go it is not really that hard.
And Cam is asking for your preferences in relation to value, regardless of the role they play.
If we want great debate on Collingwood issues this is one sure way to get it. Well at least give us your top ten.

DARE TO STRUGGLE - DARE TO WIN

[WhyPhilWhy?]

Listing 1 to 30 can be a little difficult given that it implies a linear ranking. How about something like this:

Automatic Selections
Anthony Rocca
Paul Licuria
Nathan Buckley
Scott Burns
James Clement
Shane Woewodin * (unknown)
Chris Tarrant
Josh Fraser
Jarrod Molloy **(if completely uninjured)
Jason Cloke
Tarkyn Lockyer

Will be selected unless form is awful
Ryan Lonie
Alan Didak
Shane O'Bree
Leon Davis
Glenn Freeborn

Good players, but almost automatic coz we have no real alternate
Simon Prestigiacomo
Steve McKee
Shane Wakelin

The ones the selectors ponder over every week
Rupert Betheras
Heath Scotland
Ben Johnson
Mark McGough
Andrew Williams
Carl Steinfort
Brodie Holland
Richard Cole
Mark Richardson

Need to kick 10 at Willi to get a game at this stage
Cameron Cloke *** (early days yet)
Tom Davidson
Ben Kinnear
Guy Richards
Dane Swan
Tristen Walker

Ben Johnson is the one that gave me the most trouble. Early in the season appeared to be in the last group, but maybe he even went as far as the top group by year end.

And I was no great fan of Freeza, figuring him to be a bit flash and unaccountable, but having rewatched the finals tapes, he was rock solid when it counted.


"I am disrespectful to scum! Can you see I am serious!"

[Joel]

Okay. I will do one later, when I've got some more time. I've got to do some studying, I've got an exam at uni this arvo.

JDF

"We've never quit, and we won't."

[Cam]

the first reply and someone breaks the rule...

does it really matter who we think is most valuable to us? of course it doesnt. Will Mick sit down and go "shit! Murray & Cam havent got benny johnson in their top 20s! We'd better have a good look at him!" roles schmoles. look at the chicago bulls with michael jordan, scottie pippen and a bunch of role players that changed every year through 6 championships. you do the best with what you have available to you. if benny j all of a sudden got injured and we needed someone else to fill his spot you reckon that couldnt happen? i used to think unkind thoughts about presti but hell, his body size and dedication make him the bane of all large chf's or ff's. just ask his bitchs tredrea and neitz.

i'll be very disappointed if woey isnt in our top 10.

i hope cloke can back up with another good year, sometimes younguns drop off after a year good one as we all know.

look at the top 10 players. what makes them so valuable.

well in mine

rocca - ability to tear a game apart no matter what anyone else is doing. regularly kicks goals from 60m. leader.

lica - shuts down the oppositions best onballer and gets touches himself. win win. leader.

buckley - class above the rest with disposal. hard at it, great tackler, fierce competitor, leader, non-complainer.

burns - brutal intimidator. ferocious, good disposal, good brain. strong and proud. leader

clement - adaptable, tough, excellent skills, ability to kick 60m, no nonsense workman. can curtail nearly any forward thrown at him

woewodin - tackler, hard runner, passionate, team first mentality, exquisite skills on both sides of his body, second (maybe) only to bucks

tarrant - dynamite lead. vice-like hands. good in the air & on the ground. hopefully will return to 2001 form with healed body. accurate kick for goal when his leg is not sticky-taped on.

fraser - tall, skilled, reliable kick for goal, good brain. remember his 2001? block/steal off montgomery to beat port, bananas from the pockets. hopefully over his injuries for a huge 2003. will become a better ruckman as he ages.

lonie - hard, skilled, fast, no turning back type, backs himself and busts packs and midfields open. dependable bomber from beyond 50.

didak - interesting stat for 2002 is that didak directly intercepted 6 kick ins. he's quick, sneaky, good overhead, beautiful kick, excellent around goals and has the best grin & finger waggle after a sealer since warney. apologies to leon. plus he will continue to develop.

By the way this is not a 'i like these players poll' at various times i was disgusted with taz & josh during the year. i named my son after leon davis, and i love rupe rupe rupert & mcgougha. but to me this list reflects our most valuable resources.

Hard at it. The Collingwood way.

[This message has been edited by Cam (edited 15 November 2002).]

[ramjet21]

you mean eddie, MM, Balmy and the boys dont get on here and take our advice cam? thats it for me then. they can do there own work from now on.

[Harrysz]

Not bad Cam; but at this stage of his career I think you're
over-rating Didak. I think you're definitely under-rating Freeborn; he doesn't even make your top 22.
Freeborn's tough, has skill and is our only premiership player;
AND, was chosen to speak to the other players during the GF.

[Cam]

good point harry, i ummed and arred over freeborn and did consider dids maybe a bit high but being a #3 draft pick and with his huge upside i'd still stick him there. now, where's your 30 dude?

Hard at it. The Collingwood way.

[MiB & W]

I'm only going to post a top two. Beyond that it's just too difficult. Also, while I think Woewodin will be a great addition to the Pies, he's yet to wear the Black & White...

No.1 MM.
No.2 Eddie.

[Mr Magpies]

Based on performance this year

1.Nathan Buckley
2.Paul Licuria
3.Anthony Rocca
4.Scott Burns
5.James Clement
6.Jason Cloke
7.Josh Fraser
8.Shane WoeWodin
9.Tarkyn Lockyer
10.Chris Tarrant
11.Shane Wakelin
12.Steve Mckee
13.Rupurt Betherus
14.Alan Didak
15.Carl Steinfort
16.Ryan Lonie
17.Ben Johnson
18.Heath Scottland
19.Shane O'Bree
20.Mark Mcgough
21.Leon Davis
22.Glenn Freeborn
23.Brodie Holland
24.Richard Cole
25.Simon Prestigiacomo
26.Jarrod Molloy- When not injured could place himself in top 10
27.Mark Richardson
28.Andrew Willaims- Only ever seen him play for about 5 min
29.Ben Kinnear
30.Tom Davidson

Cameron Cloke, Guy Richards, Dane Swan, Rhyce Shaw, Tristan Walker all would be proably in the top 30 if i had seen more of there games




------
How much of a legend is Jason Cloke

[Cam]

i would have thought, based on performances this year, that presti would be higher than josh fraser and tarrant.

Hard at it. The Collingwood way.

[Coxonator]

Now we aint talkin impact players we are talkin 30 MVP's right, so this is the order.

1. Nathan Buckley
2. Anthony Rocca
3. Scott Burns
4. Paul Licuria
5. James Clement
6. Shane Woewodin
7. Josh Fraser
8. Chris Tarrant
9. Steve McKee
10. Tarkyn Lockyer
11. Ryan Lonie
12. Shane Wakelin
13. Simon Prestigiacomo
14. Alan Didak
15. Jason Cloke
16. Shane O'Bree
17. Jarrod Molloy
18. Ben Johnson
19. Rupert Betheras
20. Leon Davis
21. Heath Scotland
22. Glenn Freeborn
23. Andrew Williams
24. Mark McGough
25. Carl Steinfort
26. Brodie Holland
27. Mark Richardson
28. Richard Cole
29. Ben Kinnear
30. Tom Davidson

And for the record
31. Dane Swan

Then I'm not sure coz the other 4 have shown me nothin'
1. Cameron Cloke
2. Guy Richards
3. Tristen Walker
4. Rhyce Shaw (note: to anyone from the club who actually reads all this crap get rid of him!!! he's no bloody good!!!!!)


Go the mighty Pies in 2003!!!!