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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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Someone here might be able to help (P4S I"m looking at you).
There's a scene in The Man from Snowy River where Jessica plays a piano, the movie calls it "Jessica's theme", anyone know if it's her playing a famous composer's tune? I'm not a classical music fan but geez I love this tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG7n0rh_Upw |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | A bit mannered, perhaps? She sings nicely but Chelsea Hotel #2 does not depend on nice singing - and it might even be that it is a lesser piece if it is sung by someone who doesn’t have to strain to keep the notes in pitch. It depends on its apparent rhythmic inevitability - and Lana’s style of singing deliberately breaks that down - she hovers around the tempo (it’s not really rubato - more like she wants to break the sense of rhythm altogether than to emphasise it by holding the pulse back). Lana drops behind the beat because she can (indeed, it is a trademark of her delivery). That undermines the waltz-like aesthetic of the original. The use of 3/4 time in Cohen’s original was, I have always thought, intended to evoke that pop-classical genre of the “haunted ballroom” waltz - except that, in this case, Cohen’s song just has the jaded, faded part (compare with, say, Chopin’s Opus 64, No. 2 in C sharp minor or, if you prefer, Sibelius’ Valse Triste, which filmgoers know as the sad pussycat waltz from Allegro Non Troppo) and the lack of a contrasting, “up” section heightens the sense of loss/regret/passing-nostalgic-whimsy - as you will - of his song. The last stanza (“I don’t mean to suggest that I loved you the best ...”), delivered in strict triple time is heart-wrenching in the original but it loses a little, I think, when it is sung by someone who can ease their way around the melody and drop out of the strict tempo with this much facility.
I hope that’s not sounding too harsh - I actually love Lana but I’m not sure this song isn’t just too personal to cover. Lots of Cohen’s songs are intensely personal but, for the most part, they can be “personalised” by another singer (Judy Collins, Joan Baez and Jennifer Warnes have all made many of his songs “theirs”). This one, I think, may just defy being “sung” by anyone else. Like Lou Reed singing “Sweet Jane” or, if you will, Neil Young singing “Ohio”. |
That's an excellent analysis, P4S, thanks! I need to talk to you about music more often (if you can tolerate my pleb-tier understanding of it, lol).
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| luvdids wrote: | Someone here might be able to help (P4S I"m looking at you).
There's a scene in The Man from Snowy River where Jessica plays a piano, the movie calls it "Jessica's theme", anyone know if it's her playing a famous composer's tune? I'm not a classical music fan but geez I love this tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG7n0rh_Upw |
No, I don’t know it - but from the harmonic structure of the main theme (which sounds as if it owes more to Joni Mitchell and Christopher Cross - remember him? - than to any “classical” composer), it’s probably written specifically for the film. Compare with, say, the piano accompaniment to “Up Where We Belong” (written around the same time) or Joni’s “Down to You” from Court and Spark (circa 1974) and you’ll be able to hear what I mean. I’ll see if I can find out who wrote this and come back. If you play, you might be able to download the sheet music and learn it - listening to it, it’s probably about a fifth grade AMEB standard piece in terms of the technical requirements. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| On the othe hand, Stui’s already answered that for you, so there you go. How close was I? |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Sheet music for the piano solo version can be purchased online for about US$5 at musicnotes.com. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | A bit mannered, perhaps? She sings nicely but Chelsea Hotel #2 does not depend on nice singing - and it might even be that it is a lesser piece if it is sung by someone who doesn’t have to strain to keep the notes in pitch. It depends on its apparent rhythmic inevitability - and Lana’s style of singing deliberately breaks that down - she hovers around the tempo (it’s not really rubato - more like she wants to break the sense of rhythm altogether than to emphasise it by holding the pulse back). Lana drops behind the beat because she can (indeed, it is a trademark of her delivery). That undermines the waltz-like aesthetic of the original. The use of 3/4 time in Cohen’s original was, I have always thought, intended to evoke that pop-classical genre of the “haunted ballroom” waltz - except that, in this case, Cohen’s song just has the jaded, faded part (compare with, say, Chopin’s Opus 64, No. 2 in C sharp minor or, if you prefer, Sibelius’ Valse Triste, which filmgoers know as the sad pussycat waltz from Allegro Non Troppo) and the lack of a contrasting, “up” section heightens the sense of loss/regret/passing-nostalgic-whimsy - as you will - of his song. The last stanza (“I don’t mean to suggest that I loved you the best ...”), delivered in strict triple time is heart-wrenching in the original but it loses a little, I think, when it is sung by someone who can ease their way around the melody and drop out of the strict tempo with this much facility.
I hope that’s not sounding too harsh - I actually love Lana but I’m not sure this song isn’t just too personal to cover. Lots of Cohen’s songs are intensely personal but, for the most part, they can be “personalised” by another singer (Judy Collins, Joan Baez and Jennifer Warnes have all made many of his songs “theirs”). This one, I think, may just defy being “sung” by anyone else. Like Lou Reed singing “Sweet Jane” or, if you will, Neil Young singing “Ohio”. |
That's an excellent analysis, P4S, thanks! I need to talk to you about music more often (if you can tolerate my pleb-tier understanding of it, lol). |
Happy to, any time. Nothing to tolerate - I don’t profess to have any special understanding: I just post links to a lot of music because I love a lot of different things and hope that some people who haven’t heard them might get a bit out of something they haven’t listened to before. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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What do you think of Elton a Johns piano skills?
They always seem to have a bit in the middle of concerts these days, to show off the band skills, the drummer is amazing, but I always get a bit board at that point!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I don’t think how “well” he plays on some grander scale is that relevant to the enjoyment people get out of his music. If you love it, you should listen to it because it will make you happier. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Fair point! I love his songs, the slow ones speak to me. I relate to his relationship with his parents, I’m glad he found peace.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I don’t think how “well” he plays on some grander scale is that relevant to the enjoyment people get out of his music. If you love it, you should listen to it because it will make you happier. |
Excellent point. Being technically excellent at playing an instrument doesn't equal being able to compose and/or perform something that people actually enjoy listening to.
They aren't mutually exclusive skills but they also have minimal linkage
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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A bit more than minimal. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, Ravel and Rachmaninov were, eg, all “technically excellent” at their instrument(s). There are many examples in the music of the last 50 years that simply would not have been possible without the “technical excellence” of the composers.
When it comes to performance, of course, the link is even closer. Most of the performers who aren’t “technically excellent” surround themselves with people who are, without whom the music could not be realised. That’s why a small number of breathtakingly great session musicians have performed on so many famous “pop” records. You know, Michael Jackson might have been an OK guitarist (I have no idea) - but there was a reason Eddie Van Helen played the solo on “Beat It”. It wasn’t that he was mediocre. |
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | luvdids wrote: | Someone here might be able to help (P4S I"m looking at you).
There's a scene in The Man from Snowy River where Jessica plays a piano, the movie calls it "Jessica's theme", anyone know if it's her playing a famous composer's tune? I'm not a classical music fan but geez I love this tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG7n0rh_Upw |
No, I don’t know it - but from the harmonic structure of the main theme (which sounds as if it owes more to Joni Mitchell and Christopher Cross - remember him? - than to any “classical” composer), it’s probably written specifically for the film. Compare with, say, the piano accompaniment to “Up Where We Belong” (written around the same time) or Joni’s “Down to You” from Court and Spark (circa 1974) and you’ll be able to hear what I mean. I’ll see if I can find out who wrote this and come back. If you play, you might be able to download the sheet music and learn it - listening to it, it’s probably about a fifth grade AMEB standard piece in terms of the technical requirements. |
Thanks for the reply & Stui for the answer. Re the bolded bit, I wish I could play!! Often thought I should (been told many times I have perfect piano playing hands) but I want to be able to just sit and play a tune from the word go, no patience to learn  |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^ It’s never too late (well, provided one isn’t dead and doesn’t have hands actually crippled with arthritis - I guess that there are some natural limits). |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| luvdids wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | luvdids wrote: | Someone here might be able to help (P4S I"m looking at you).
There's a scene in The Man from Snowy River where Jessica plays a piano, the movie calls it "Jessica's theme", anyone know if it's her playing a famous composer's tune? I'm not a classical music fan but geez I love this tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG7n0rh_Upw |
No, I don’t know it - but from the harmonic structure of the main theme (which sounds as if it owes more to Joni Mitchell and Christopher Cross - remember him? - than to any “classical” composer), it’s probably written specifically for the film. Compare with, say, the piano accompaniment to “Up Where We Belong” (written around the same time) or Joni’s “Down to You” from Court and Spark (circa 1974) and you’ll be able to hear what I mean. I’ll see if I can find out who wrote this and come back. If you play, you might be able to download the sheet music and learn it - listening to it, it’s probably about a fifth grade AMEB standard piece in terms of the technical requirements. |
Thanks for the reply & Stui for the answer. Re the bolded bit, I wish I could play!! Often thought I should (been told many times I have perfect piano playing hands) but I want to be able to just sit and play a tune from the word go, no patience to learn |
I'd suggest you also have the right mind for it.
Some have natural music ability but for those who don't, if you're good at maths you'll find it easy to learn
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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