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tcnthat 
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
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Brave stance David, and I get where you're coming from. But I just cant see any part of me having any sympathy for people in this 'predicament'. As was pointed out, the only difference between someone who has murderous urges and someone who kills is the act. The act is often defined by the opportunity.
If someone with these urges has the opportunity to make a rational decision to be a kiddy fiddler (IE - I dont think I will be caught or face consequences) then any pre-emptive options must be explored. Sticky situation ethically a'la Minority Report stuff, but the rights of a kid at risk must supersede that of anyone else.
Anyway, on a similar but seperate issue, anyone see 4 Corners last night with the Afghans tooling young blokes. Was pretty horrific. Replay tonight and available on iview if you have a look. I had heard from friends based there that this was going on alot, and not just up North but all over the country, and the Afghan Govt has no interest in stopping it because of the connections go high in their govt. I have also heard that Kabul is becoming the gay capital of Asia, hard to believe, but there it is. Not sure how accurate and how overt the Kabul Gay night life is though!!!!
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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That Four Corners story really puts a case forward for a link between sexual repression and pederasty - look no further than the Catholic Church for evidence of that. This does raise the question of whether these warlords and priests are actually paedophiles or simply turning to pederasty for the same basic reason that heterosexual jail inmates have sex with each other. Or have they 'become' paedophiles? All very interesting, and as you say, disturbing stuff.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2010/s2824501.htm
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Doesn't it? I've never thought about have they 'become' paedophiles . |
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Pied Piper 
Joined: 20 May 2003
Location: Pig City
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Pied Piper wrote: | | ^ My guess is the title was a parody of the Sherman Brothers song you refer to, popularised by Ringo Starr. It was creepy enough as it was. |
Apparently correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_Thirteen,_You're_Beautiful,_and_You're_Mine
| Quote: | | The title is a parody of the song You're Sixteen by the Sherman Brothers, which was popularized by Ringo Starr. |
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"The greatest thing that could happen to the nation is when we get rid of all the media. Then we could live in peace and tranquillity, and no one would know anything." - Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen |
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collingw09d
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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I know this is off the topic but has anyone watched channel 120 on foxtel.
"Toddlers and Tiaras" Little girls dressed up in evening wear, bathing costumes, with fake tans, false teeth, false eyelashes, wigs, full make up, manicures, pedicures etc. Toddlers wiggling their hips and winking at the judges. Sorry but these children should be out throwing and kicking balls, getting dirty having fun being children not beauty queens. Does anybody else have a problem with this? I watched in disbelief but would others with a "problem" see this as a form of kiddy porn!
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My husband and I divorced for religious reasons. He thought he was God and I'm an athiest !!!! |
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OEP 
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| collingw09d wrote: | I know this is off the topic but has anyone watched channel 120 on foxtel.
"Toddlers and Tiaras" Little girls dressed up in evening wear, bathing costumes, with fake tans, false teeth, false eyelashes, wigs, full make up, manicures, pedicures etc. Toddlers wiggling their hips and winking at the judges. Sorry but these children should be out throwing and kicking balls, getting dirty having fun being children not beauty queens. Does anybody else have a problem with this? I watched in disbelief but would others with a "problem" see this as a form of kiddy porn! |
To those who have evil desires towards children, yes they would probably view it a soft children pornography.
Personally I could not think of anything worse than entering one of my children in one of these competitions. Why can't people just let kids be kids ?
On some of David's comments about pedophiles, well they seem to have been made by someone who has no real experience in dealing with this evil. These people are master manipulators with little if any conscience about the physical, psychological and emotional damage they cause to their innocent victim. With regards to your suggestion of some sort of digitized for of child pornography for them to view as a means to quell their desires, well I find that extremely offensive, if these one thing these vermin should not be given is any form of access to child sex related material.
You make a distinction between a pederast and a pedophile and yes by strict definition a pedophile is a person who is attracted to children but has not yet acted on those desires whereas a pederast is someone who has acted on those desires.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pederast
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile
My problem with the way you make this distinction is that your attempting to make then sound like there miles apart, when in fact all your talking about is degrees of separation. A pedophile will eventually become a pederast and act on their desires, there just to strong for them not to.
Also I take exception to your insinuation that the Catholic Church is a haven for pederast behavior, you make this comment very subtly but it's there. I'm not religious but I my wife is and I've had dealings with various Catholic Priests all of whom have been very warm, gentle, giving human beings.
You make another link between homosexual behavior and pedophilia with your statement on jail mates, well simply stated that's just homosexual behavior between two or more adults, so were's the link to pedophilia.
Further to sexual repression being a trigger for pedophilia well you need to make a decision in one of your first post you make comment that pedophilia is something someone has, not a conscious decision that is made. Well if someone is choosing pedophilia due to sexual repression then that is a conscious decision. Also why is sexual repression a trigger for someone to become a pederast, why does it make them attracted to children, why not adult males or females I don't understand why the default attraction would be towards children.
Also your comments on the Police targeting pedophiles using the internet to view children pornography is very short sighted. Of course Police monitor known child sex sites and take the required action against those who choose to view the material, but more than this it's the monitoring of these site and other chat sites set up for pedophiles that provides Police with the information they need to break up domestic and international child sex rings. People using these sites are doing so for a reason.
I apologize if I've come on pretty strong but I've had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with these evil creatures discussing in detail with them their actions, both sexual and otherwise, when dealing with children and I've seen the physical, emotional and psychological damage that have resulted due to their actions and total lack of remorse or fake remorse they've portrayed. Added to this I've witnessed first hand their ability to lie in court when I was the protection detail for someone accused and attending court for a vicious child rape.
This is something I'm very passionate about and the thought of giving these people even the minutest breathing room is unacceptable.
_________________
A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| OEP wrote: | | collingw09d wrote: | I know this is off the topic but has anyone watched channel 120 on foxtel.
"Toddlers and Tiaras" Little girls dressed up in evening wear, bathing costumes, with fake tans, false teeth, false eyelashes, wigs, full make up, manicures, pedicures etc. Toddlers wiggling their hips and winking at the judges. Sorry but these children should be out throwing and kicking balls, getting dirty having fun being children not beauty queens. Does anybody else have a problem with this? I watched in disbelief but would others with a "problem" see this as a form of kiddy porn! |
To those who have evil desires towards children, yes they would probably view it a soft children pornography.
Personally I could not think of anything worse than entering one of my children in one of these competitions. Why can't people just let kids be kids ?
On some of David's comments about pedophiles, well they seem to have been made by someone who has no real experience in dealing with this evil. These people are master manipulators with little if any conscience about the physical, psychological and emotional damage they cause to their innocent victim. With regards to your suggestion of some sort of digitized for of child pornography for them to view as a means to quell their desires, well I find that extremely offensive, if these one thing these vermin should not be given is any form of access to child sex related material.
This is something I'm very passionate about and the thought of giving these people even the minutest breathing room is unacceptable. |
OEP in my view David wrote a challenging piece getting us to open our minds to different ways of dealing/thinking about pedophiles & pederasts.
With respect to the Catholic Church - the amount of abuse of parishioners including children but not confined to children has become exposed over the last 10 or more years is huge but only coiovers a small percentage. In the catholic Church the abuse is by Catholic priests. Obviously not all Catholic priests. The Catholic Church stands out because they have been in denial - look at last weeks comment by the Pope about the abuse of kiddies by Cathloic priests in Ireland. Not only is the abuse sickening but the Catholic Church's response is almost just as bad as it appears to condone it & makes victimns suffer even more. The other Churches have been in less denial that the Catholic Church which includes our very own George Pell. THis is not confined to the catholic Church . There have been reported instances in fringe Jewish & fringe Muslim groups as well.
Pietillidie was on the money whan he said it is about abuse of power.
David in part was pointing out that the same methods of punshment/rehab/ justice/ we use now have not been working. David was positing some options to consider - I reckon worthwhile options.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| collingw09d wrote: | I know this is off the topic but has anyone watched channel 120 on foxtel.
"Toddlers and Tiaras" Little girls dressed up in evening wear, bathing costumes, with fake tans, false teeth, false eyelashes, wigs, full make up, manicures, pedicures etc. Toddlers wiggling their hips and winking at the judges. Sorry but these children should be out throwing and kicking balls, getting dirty having fun being children not beauty queens. Does anybody else have a problem with this? I watched in disbelief but would others with a "problem" see this as a form of kiddy porn! |
I find it amazing that we have a media that can get work people up into a state over Bill Henson's photography, and yet there's nothing other than the odd opinion piece over child beauty contests. For me, it's not about what paedophiles think watching it - this sort of thing IS child pornography.
| OEP wrote: | On some of David's comments about pedophiles, well they seem to have been made by someone who has no real experience in dealing with this evil. These people are master manipulators with little if any conscience about the physical, psychological and emotional damage they cause to their innocent victim. With regards to your suggestion of some sort of digitized for of child pornography for them to view as a means to quell their desires, well I find that extremely offensive, if these one thing these vermin should not be given is any form of access to child sex related material.
You make a distinction between a pederast and a pedophile and yes by strict definition a pedophile is a person who is attracted to children but has not yet acted on those desires whereas a pederast is someone who has acted on those desires.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pederast
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile
My problem with the way you make this distinction is that your attempting to make then sound like there miles apart, when in fact all your talking about is degrees of separation. A pedophile will eventually become a pederast and act on their desires, there just to strong for them not to.
Also I take exception to your insinuation that the Catholic Church is a haven for pederast behavior, you make this comment very subtly but it's there. I'm not religious but I my wife is and I've had dealings with various Catholic Priests all of whom have been very warm, gentle, giving human beings.
You make another link between homosexual behavior and pedophilia with your statement on jail mates, well simply stated that's just homosexual behavior between two or more adults, so were's the link to pedophilia.
Further to sexual repression being a trigger for pedophilia well you need to make a decision in one of your first post you make comment that pedophilia is something someone has, not a conscious decision that is made. Well if someone is choosing pedophilia due to sexual repression then that is a conscious decision. Also why is sexual repression a trigger for someone to become a pederast, why does it make them attracted to children, why not adult males or females I don't understand why the default attraction would be towards children.
Also your comments on the Police targeting pedophiles using the internet to view children pornography is very short sighted. Of course Police monitor known child sex sites and take the required action against those who choose to view the material, but more than this it's the monitoring of these site and other chat sites set up for pedophiles that provides Police with the information they need to break up domestic and international child sex rings. People using these sites are doing so for a reason.
I apologize if I've come on pretty strong but I've had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with these evil creatures discussing in detail with them their actions, both sexual and otherwise, when dealing with children and I've seen the physical, emotional and psychological damage that have resulted due to their actions and total lack of remorse or fake remorse they've portrayed. Added to this I've witnessed first hand their ability to lie in court when I was the protection detail for someone accused and attending court for a vicious child rape.
This is something I'm very passionate about and the thought of giving these people even the minutest breathing room is unacceptable. |
A few points:
1) I'm not sure why repressive attitudes towards sexuality seem to have links to pederast activity, but the abuse in the Catholic Church is well-documented and this Four Corners story just adds weight to the argument. I have a few theories why this might be the case, but in any case, this has nothing to do with people choosing to become paedophiles. It's about people in unnatural and unhealthy societal situations (e.g. enforced monogamy and indoctrinated against masturbation) perhaps sinking into aberrant sexual activity or desires as a result. There's no conscious choice involved. Who seriously asks themselves "I think I'm going to become attracted to children today"? Of course, as I suggested above, it's possible that these people aren't actually paedophiles per se, but that the pederast actions they commit have more to do with power.
2) Your assertion that every paedophile is a future pederast is surely utterly wrong, and indicative of the very problems I'm trying to discuss here.
3) I need to go back to work but I'll respond to this in further detail later.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| collingw09d wrote: | I know this is off the topic but has anyone watched channel 120 on foxtel.
"Toddlers and Tiaras" Little girls dressed up in evening wear, bathing costumes, with fake tans, false teeth, false eyelashes, wigs, full make up, manicures, pedicures etc. Toddlers wiggling their hips and winking at the judges. Sorry but these children should be out throwing and kicking balls, getting dirty having fun being children not beauty queens. Does anybody else have a problem with this? I watched in disbelief but would others with a "problem" see this as a form of kiddy porn! |
+1.
In my view, its part of a continuum with paedophillia at one end & this is along the way. The overt fetishism & sexualiztion of children for adult gratification.
This is where I support corporal punishment - of the Adults!!
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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OEP
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| watt price tully wrote: | | OEP wrote: | | collingw09d wrote: | I know this is off the topic but has anyone watched channel 120 on foxtel.
"Toddlers and Tiaras" Little girls dressed up in evening wear, bathing costumes, with fake tans, false teeth, false eyelashes, wigs, full make up, manicures, pedicures etc. Toddlers wiggling their hips and winking at the judges. Sorry but these children should be out throwing and kicking balls, getting dirty having fun being children not beauty queens. Does anybody else have a problem with this? I watched in disbelief but would others with a "problem" see this as a form of kiddy porn! |
To those who have evil desires towards children, yes they would probably view it a soft children pornography.
Personally I could not think of anything worse than entering one of my children in one of these competitions. Why can't people just let kids be kids ?
On some of David's comments about pedophiles, well they seem to have been made by someone who has no real experience in dealing with this evil. These people are master manipulators with little if any conscience about the physical, psychological and emotional damage they cause to their innocent victim. With regards to your suggestion of some sort of digitized for of child pornography for them to view as a means to quell their desires, well I find that extremely offensive, if these one thing these vermin should not be given is any form of access to child sex related material.
This is something I'm very passionate about and the thought of giving these people even the minutest breathing room is unacceptable. |
OEP in my view David wrote a challenging piece getting us to open our minds to different ways of dealing/thinking about pedophiles & pederasts.
With respect to the Catholic Church - the amount of abuse of parishioners including children but not confined to children has become exposed over the last 10 or more years is huge but only coiovers a small percentage. In the catholic Church the abuse is by Catholic priests. Obviously not all Catholic priests. The Catholic Church stands out because they have been in denial - look at last weeks comment by the Pope about the abuse of kiddies by Cathloic priests in Ireland. Not only is the abuse sickening but the Catholic Church's response is almost just as bad as it appears to condone it & makes victimns suffer even more. The other Churches have been in less denial that the Catholic Church which includes our very own George Pell. THis is not confined to the catholic Church . There have been reported instances in fringe Jewish & fringe Muslim groups as well.
Pietillidie was on the money whan he said it is about abuse of power.
David in part was pointing out that the same methods of punshment/rehab/ justice/ we use now have not been working. David was positing some options to consider - I reckon worthwhile options. |
Firstly if you know anyone who has been the victim of this heinous crime then ask them how "challenging" they find the post or if they just find them down right insulting.
On your point about the Catholic Church and pedophilia being an abuse of power let me first state that my issue was with the generality of David's post on the matter, it made it sound like the problem was rampant within the Catholic ranks which it isn't. I don't deny the cover ups and denials that took place, that was disgraceful on the part of the Catholic hierarchy, but the number of Catholic Priests then and now that were / are part of this evil but it was a small percentage not the whole. With regards to pedophilia being an abuse of power well of course it is, the basic principle in any non-consensual sex act is power, the actual sex act is secondary to this. Pedophilia is an extension of this in that all the victims are easily overpowered and manipulated thus heightening the thrill for the attacker.
On the point of different thinkings on how to deal with pedophiles the fact is this is an unbelievable strong feeling to willingly give up and in a lot of cases the perpetrator does not believe they have a problem, they believe society does and therefore will never be able to be rehabilitated. Those very small numbers of pedophiles that do want to rehabilitate will never be fully rid of their desires and will always remain a threat to societies children. Further to this I don't see how pandering to a pedophiles needs is a radical way of dealing with this problem, it's merely re-enforcing their view that they aren't doing anything wrong.
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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OEP
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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[quote="David"] | collingw09d wrote: | I know this is off the topic but has anyone watched channel 120 on foxtel.
"Toddlers and Tiaras" Little girls dressed up in evening wear, bathing costumes, with fake tans, false teeth, false eyelashes, wigs, full make up, manicures, pedicures etc. Toddlers wiggling their hips and winking at the judges. Sorry but these children should be out throwing and kicking balls, getting dirty having fun being children not beauty queens. Does anybody else have a problem with this? I watched in disbelief but would others with a "problem" see this as a form of kiddy porn! |
| Quote: | | I find it amazing that we have a media that can get work people up into a state over Bill Henson's photography, and yet there's nothing other than the odd opinion piece over child beauty contests. For me, it's not about what paedophiles think watching it - this sort of thing IS child pornography. |
| OEP wrote: | On some of David's comments about pedophiles, well they seem to have been made by someone who has no real experience in dealing with this evil. These people are master manipulators with little if any conscience about the physical, psychological and emotional damage they cause to their innocent victim. With regards to your suggestion of some sort of digitized for of child pornography for them to view as a means to quell their desires, well I find that extremely offensive, if these one thing these vermin should not be given is any form of access to child sex related material.
You make a distinction between a pederast and a pedophile and yes by strict definition a pedophile is a person who is attracted to children but has not yet acted on those desires whereas a pederast is someone who has acted on those desires.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pederast
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile
My problem with the way you make this distinction is that your attempting to make then sound like there miles apart, when in fact all your talking about is degrees of separation. A pedophile will eventually become a pederast and act on their desires, there just to strong for them not to.
Also I take exception to your insinuation that the Catholic Church is a haven for pederast behavior, you make this comment very subtly but it's there. I'm not religious but I my wife is and I've had dealings with various Catholic Priests all of whom have been very warm, gentle, giving human beings.
You make another link between homosexual behavior and pedophilia with your statement on jail mates, well simply stated that's just homosexual behavior between two or more adults, so were's the link to pedophilia.
Further to sexual repression being a trigger for pedophilia well you need to make a decision in one of your first post you make comment that pedophilia is something someone has, not a conscious decision that is made. Well if someone is choosing pedophilia due to sexual repression then that is a conscious decision. Also why is sexual repression a trigger for someone to become a pederast, why does it make them attracted to children, why not adult males or females I don't understand why the default attraction would be towards children.
Also your comments on the Police targeting pedophiles using the internet to view children pornography is very short sighted. Of course Police monitor known child sex sites and take the required action against those who choose to view the material, but more than this it's the monitoring of these site and other chat sites set up for pedophiles that provides Police with the information they need to break up domestic and international child sex rings. People using these sites are doing so for a reason.
I apologize if I've come on pretty strong but I've had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with these evil creatures discussing in detail with them their actions, both sexual and otherwise, when dealing with children and I've seen the physical, emotional and psychological damage that have resulted due to their actions and total lack of remorse or fake remorse they've portrayed. Added to this I've witnessed first hand their ability to lie in court when I was the protection detail for someone accused and attending court for a vicious child rape.
This is something I'm very passionate about and the thought of giving these people even the minutest breathing room is unacceptable. |
| Quote: | A few points:
1) I'm not sure why repressive attitudes towards sexuality seem to have links to pederast activity, but the abuse in the Catholic Church is well-documented and this Four Corners story just adds weight to the argument. I have a few theories why this might be the case, but in any case, this has nothing to do with people choosing to become paedophiles. It's about people in unnatural and unhealthy societal situations (e.g. enforced monogamy and indoctrinated against masturbation) perhaps sinking into aberrant sexual activity or desires as a result. There's no conscious choice involved. Who seriously asks themselves "I think I'm going to become attracted to children today"? Of course, as I suggested above, it's possible that these people aren't actually paedophiles per se, but that the pederast actions they commit have more to do with power. |
My point was that persons who have their sexual desires repressed aren't predetermined towards pedophilia, and your point on the Catholic church is indicative of the views the press have forced down peoples throats about the subject. The fact remains it was and still is a small number of Catholic Priests that were / are responsible for these actions not the majority, or in some peoples views, the whole. As for Catholic Priests being subject to forced monogamy and being in-doctrined against masturbation, the fact is it's a voluntary organisation and a priest that's unable to hold true to their vows has the option of removing themselves from the priesthood.
| Quote: | | 2) Your assertion that every paedophile is a future pederast is surely utterly wrong, and indicative of the very problems I'm trying to discuss here. |
Your quite correct, by the strict interpretation of a pederast they would have to engage in a direct sex act with a child. My point, which I poorly illustrated, is that a pedophile will at some point act on their desire, they may not have sex with a child directly but they will view child pornography or head to the local park so they can "watch" the children play, etc. Some of the things they do may seem incidental but the fact remains their doing it to satisfy their desires towards children, and this simple fact makes them a danger to societies children. It's also illegal.
| Quote: | | 3) I need to go back to work but I'll respond to this in further detail later. |
Have fun at work. I'm on my days off 
_________________
A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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OEP I understand your repulsion to the grotesque side of humanity and I guess I'd feel likewise if I had to deal with such people and/or their victims . If you work in the field hat off to you for carrying out your duties; there's surely trauma in such work.
And how disturbing is this vile sub-culture that apparently lurks somewhere in the underbelly of society? Where does it come from? How does it form?
I would assume there's always going to be a clash between epidemiology and case, though I guess we should be more careful with these topics. But this problem seems to be that widespread it does warrant scrutiny, and that doesn't mean the act is any less vile or the victim any less affected or the problem any less troubling.
And let's not forget it is still likely that far more have suffered at the hands of those who would control thought than any other violence or abuse in history, so that too needs to be considered.
On your response to the medical approach, that's a good point you make about people not wanting treatment. But I would argue that makes the disorder even more persistent and hard to treat, but no less a disorder. Biology is full of such phenomena because they aid with self replication. And as for treatment not working very well, again, that's simply a scientific challenge. We still can't cure many diseases. On the other hand, one could quite easily see the medical approach turned into an extermination program by those who believe in thought crime, so it's not without risks itself.
And do we have actual data comparing the rate of offence of the priesthood to the rate of offence of society generally? That would tell us is if there is a specific problem related to the church or not.
I think logically there are some genuine questions which need to be asked. If, for example, pedophilia is a genetic disorder (and it must be a disorder of some kind because "evil" doesn't actually exist and normal humans ipso facto don't do this), then we can probably draw a graph which shows the degree of the disorder reaching a point whereby the act can't be controlled and the social penalty forces some sort of twisted denial mechanism to kick in and thus the deceit and manipulation, and sordid underworld follows.
Surely no phenomenon, vile or not, ought to be considered outside scrutiny. But no doubt it's only a traumatic topic for victims, and I guess we should've flagged that. |
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OEP
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| Quote: | | [quote="pietillidie"]OEP I understand your repulsion to the grotesque side of humanity and I guess I'd feel likewise if I had to deal with such people and/or their victims . If you work in the field hat off to you for carrying out your duties; there's surely trauma in such work. |
I feel I should clarify that I used to work within that field.
| Quote: | And how disturbing is this vile sub-culture that apparently lurks somewhere in the underbelly of society? Where does it come from? How does it form?
I would assume there's always going to be a clash between epidemiology and case, though I guess we should be more careful with these topics. But this problem seems to be that widespread it does warrant scrutiny, and that doesn't mean the act is any less vile or the victim any less affected or the problem any less troubling.
And let's not forget it is still likely that far more have suffered at the hands of those who would control thought than any other violence or abuse in history, so that too needs to be considered.
On your response to the medical approach, that's a good point you make about people not wanting treatment. But I would argue that makes the disorder even more persistent and hard to treat, but no less a disorder. Biology is full of such phenomena because they aid with self replication. And as for treatment not working very well, again, that's simply a scientific challenge. We still can't cure many diseases. On the other hand, one could quite easily see the medical approach turned into an extermination program by those who believe in thought crime, so it's not without risks itself. |
I guess my point about those that do not want assistance is that it's impossible to create any system not involving chemical neutering that will successfully rehabilitate them, and even then all your doing is removing the tool of their trade not the desire.
| Quote: | | And do we have actual data comparing the rate of offence of the priesthood to the rate of offence of society generally? That would tell us is if there is a specific problem related to the church or not. |
I feel reasonably confident it will closely mirror, percentage wise, the broader community.
| Quote: | | I think logically there are some genuine questions which need to be asked. If, for example, pedophilia is a genetic disorder (and it must be a disorder of some kind because "evil" doesn't actually exist and normal humans ipso facto don't do this), then we can probably draw a graph which shows the degree of the disorder reaching a point whereby the act can't be controlled and the social penalty forces some sort of twisted denial mechanism to kick in and thus the deceit and manipulation, and sordid underworld follows. |
My view, and I stress this is my personal point of view, is that this "disorder" was given that classification for no other reason than society as a whole finds it to difficult to deal with the fact some people enjoy the power associated with pedophilia. The way to ease the minds of the general public and help them make sense of it all is to call it a disorder.
| Quote: | | Surely no phenomenon, vile or not, ought to be considered outside scrutiny. But no doubt it's only a traumatic topic for victims, and I guess we should've flagged that. |
Outside scrutiny no, but should they be given any latitude as part of that assessment, absolutely not. Both the Police and law should maintain a crushing pressure on those persons with these preferences to reduce their opportunities to offend or re-offend.
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| OEP wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | [quote="OEP
Pietillidie was on the money whan he said it is about abuse of power.
David in part was pointing out that the same methods of punshment/rehab/ justice/ we use now have not been working. David was positing some options to consider - I reckon worthwhile options. |
Firstly if you know anyone who has been the victim of this heinous crime then ask them how "challenging" they find the post or if they just find them down right insulting.
On your point about the Catholic Church and pedophilia being an abuse of power let me first state that my issue was with the generality of David's post on the matter, it made it sound like the problem was rampant within the Catholic ranks which it isn't. I don't deny the cover ups and denials that took place, that was disgraceful on the part of the Catholic hierarchy, but the number of Catholic Priests then and now that were / are part of this evil but it was a small percentage not the whole. With regards to pedophilia being an abuse of power well of course it is, the basic principle in any non-consensual sex act is power, the actual sex act is secondary to this. Pedophilia is an extension of this in that all the victims are easily overpowered and manipulated thus heightening the thrill for the attacker.
On the point of different thinkings on how to deal with pedophiles the fact is this is an unbelievable strong feeling to willingly give up and in a lot of cases the perpetrator does not believe they have a problem, they believe society does and therefore will never be able to be rehabilitated. Those very small numbers of pedophiles that do want to rehabilitate will never be fully rid of their desires and will always remain a threat to societies children. Further to this I don't see how pandering to a pedophiles needs is a radical way of dealing with this problem, it's merely re-enforcing their view that they aren't doing anything wrong. |
OEP, to be clear, I wrote Davids ideas were challenging not victims of paedolphillia. To then ask how victims would feel insulted....about the term is not what I wrote.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Fair enough, OEP. Thanks for the reply. |
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