So, is it worse than I thought? (The sequel...)

[Pied Piper]

http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=43554&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gonna&start=0

Back in May this year, just after our win over St Kilda and before we humbled the Cats to the tune of 86 points, I wrote a long post called It's gonna get worse (before it gets better). It got a lot of traffic, so most of you will probably be familiar with it, but the link above is posted for new Nickster's.

In this post, after three losses in a row, I'd like to try to make some sense of why our season seems to have fallen in such a hole, and ask the question: are things in fact worse than I first thought? I ask this with my tongue slightly in my cheek, because anyone who actually read this thread would understand I am optimistic about the club's direction and future. Having said that, some hard questions do need to be asked.

To recap, the main crux of my earlier argument was as follows. I didn't think we'd be good enough in 2008, and probably not 2009 either. The reason for this came down to simple list demographics. I thought we'd been left short of experience and leadership after the retirements of Nathan Buckley, Paul Licuria and James Clement in 2007, with the loss of the latter in particular crucial.

But more importantly, I wrote that a number of other key players are nearing the end: Anthony Rocca, Simon Prestigiacomo, Scott Burns, Shane Wakelin, Brodie Holland and Ryan Lonie, although the last has the next month to salvage his career if he's lucky. For the other five, retirement - whether injury-enforced or otherwise - looms large. And anyone who thinks we've already got these players covered is fooling themselves.

This is true most of all of Rocca. I originally wrote:

[medders#7]

Very Good Post.

A lot to think about!!

Especially the leadership positions.

[jack_spain]

Great post Pied Piper! I agree with you about Harry O. And credit where it's due, your view that it would get worse before it gets better might have been viewed by some of us with scepticism at the time, but you were right. Well done.

I'm sure we all wish it were not so. It will be a strange atmosphere at the 'G on Saturday night I think.

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

Harry's the man. Well done PP, I don't usually read long posts but you kept me intrigued. Surely you've done this before?

[Johnson#26]

Like the suggestion of Harry as the skipper. Am hoping Burnsy goes on another season, but the Big H is one man who you can be guaranteed plays like he's playing for his spot in the team, even if he's been BOG for a month prior. A revelation.

[Cuthbert Collingwood]

gayfer was "the blanket"

harry is "the overcoat"

[kambarker]

How refreshing to read your ideas ABOUT football ( instead of Heaters indescretions).

Good Post............alot of food for thought.

[Mr. Burns]

This is probably the best post that I have seen on this site for the last 2 weeks.

I have always thought this year that we didn't compensate for the loss of Buckley, Clement (and to a lesser extent Licuria). We should have done better recruiting.

IMO this year is a 3 horse race for the premiership - Cats, Hawks, Dogs. No one else will come close.

We are probably in the same boat as the Doggies last year and the Cats the year before.

We need to recruit well this year - and if that means some well established stars - then so be it.

For all of the criticisms of Gavin Brown with the Reserves - he has done wonderfully well nurturing our next set of stars.

We need to off set that with some experience (see the Dogs with Welsh, Hawks with Dew).

My 2 cents worth.

[Mountains Magpie]

Great read as always PP

When I wrote "Standing On The Edge Of An Era" in September 2006, my middle tier for leadership was Ben Johnson, Josh Fraser, Alan Didak, Ryan Lonie, Leon Davis, Brodie Holland, Tarkyn Lockyer, Paul Licuria, Shane O’Bree, Rhyce Shaw and Chris Tarrant.

Having re-read my own article I can't find anyone in that group except maybe Lockyer for a potential captain. Two years ago I was on the Fraser/Johnno bandwagon but I'm not so sure now.

Anyway, I agree with you - leadership is a great concern, particularly with no-one in my so called middle tier seeming to want to step up.

Perhaps the co-captain exercise might be something to think about. Maxwell, Pendlebury & O'Brien could perhaps share the role ? Just a thought !!!

Looking forward to your future writings PP !!!

[RudeBoy]

Great thread Pied Piper.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I guess I have a simpler explanation for our form slump. When we have our best side, fit and firing, we can beat anyone. However, when we lose a couple (Rocca, Rusling and Reid) and play unfit players (Josh and Leon) then our lack of depth becomes exposed and we struggle to win against anyone. Bottom line is we lack depth.

As for our next captain, I think Harry would be a great choice, but I'm surprised no-one has given any thought to Medhurst, probably our Copeland trophy winner this year! He leads by example, can inspire the team with captain's goals, is articulate, and can go into the midfield when needed. He's also got that right amount of mongrel in him. Either the Medster or the big 'H' for me.

[Big Dan]

Nailed the leadership issue right on the head.

It seems that that loss of Buckley, Clement, Licuria and Rocca (even though it's only on field here) have created a void that no one fully appreciates until now. It is not just the leadership on the field, but the professionalism off it which the 'Pies are so desperately crying out for. Ina sense, it seems that they could be headed down the same path Carlton went after the loss of Kernahan, Madden, Williams and Silvagni. It has taken them 10 years to start to recover, and even then, it has only been with the injection of a ready made captain from another club.

This in turn leads me to my observation.

Buckley, Clement, Licuria and Rocca all came to Collingwood via other clubs. In fact, you could also add to that list Molloy & Wakelin who were pivotal in leading by their actions in the early part of this decade. When was the last time a true leader of the club emerged from its own ranks? I alwys though Josh was the heir apparent but I have to admit, getting beaten in a contested mark by Peter Bell just about did it for me.

My solution, go down the multiple captain path and appoint 38 of them! It would at least make tossing the coin a cracker to watch!

[John Wren]

another wonderful, thoughtful assessment irrespective whether people agree or not. i can't help but think that if (good ol' ifs, buts and maybes) we had've snagged some of those winnable games we might not be having the conversations we're currently enjoying [or not as the case may be]. having said that, would that have just papered over the cracks that have clearly surfaced?

we're 9/9 but could be at least 13/5.

[Ant85]

Great post.

I remember at the Essendon disaster match a few weeks ago, I was sitting amongst Essendon members (don't ask) a few rows from the front.

I recall mid-to-late 3rd quarter, we were down and out, and there was a bit of a pack fumbling for possession and there was only one Magpie putting 110% effort in - Harry O. He won possession in the same pack, not once, but twice after his first attempt was rebounded.

He is the only player that has genuinely impressed me this year.

[Dr Pie]

An excellent post Pied Piper. I think that it is still a little early for Harry O, but he is getting the right training. Apparantly, Harry trains every Wednesday with Des Tuddenham (according to an interview with Tuddy on the Coodabeen Champions). While Des was a disaster as a coach, I think that he was the best Collingwood Captain that I ever saw (and that includes Tony Shaw and Nathan Buckley). If Tuddy can teach Harry some of his leadership skills, together with Harry's excellent attitude we would have a fine future Captain. But wait a year or two because I think Harry is still a little young to handle the off-field tasks of a captain.

[John Wren]

the same harry that heads down to some commission flats in fitzroy on a regular basis, plays a bit of basketball with the locals and hands out goodies to them. and they have no idea who he is but only know him as the fella who brings things.